Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Jewelry, Flatware & Holloware
PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
seabrease
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:35 am
Location: Maryland

Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Postby seabrease » Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:07 am

Hi, I am trying to identify the marks on this bracelet. I can't find any information on the initials or the picture. It looks like a side profile of an eagle head with sharp beak.
I appreciate any help,
Thanks,
Seabrease

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Dora
Posts: 3
Joined: Thu Jun 01, 2006 9:51 pm

Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Postby Dora » Thu Apr 02, 2009 2:29 am

Hello Seabrease: I too have a cuff bracelet with the same mark. I have researched with no luck. Let's hope someone out there can tell us! Thanks.
Dora

seabrease
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:35 am
Location: Maryland

Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Postby seabrease » Thu Apr 02, 2009 9:09 am

Thanks so much for your reply. I too am hoping someone would have some information on this mark. I have spent a lot of time trying to locate information, with no success.

ValkyrieVixen
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Postby ValkyrieVixen » Fri Apr 17, 2009 7:26 pm

That is a fake hallmark, whenever you see the head mark it is a dead giveaway. The true eagle assay is a full eagle body, check the Mex hallmark section to see what it should look like.
It's also highly likely not to be sterling. This design is one of several that are falsely marked, they are made of alpaca, an alloy of nickel, copper and zinc, no silver in it. Another clue is the D.F. mark and the Taxco mark, they are two seperate cities.
I have had several with marks like these and all tested as NO silver content.

admin
Site Admin
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Postby admin » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:26 pm

That is a fake hallmark

Sorry, that is not a fake hallmark. It is a perfectly legitimate maker's mark. Over the years, I've noted that there were a number of Mexican smiths that used pictorial, rather than letter initial or full name makers' marks. The most notable are Conquistador of Mexico City (knight/horse) and Chato Castillo (parrot head). The fact that these high profile silversmiths used pictorial marks lends credence to the legitimacy of the practice.

The fact that this eagle head maker's mark shares a body part with the Mexican Assay stamp can only be noted as coincidental. As mentioned in another post - to be a false or fake mark, the mark must resemble the one it is supposed to mimic.

Certainly there exist Mexican pieces with faked marks, just as they exist in every other genre of jewelry and silverwork. The bracelet shown here is marked "Sterling", if it is lower grade than 925 or made from alpacca, the only justifiably fake mark it bears is the "sterling" stamp.

Regards, Tom

ValkyrieVixen
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Postby ValkyrieVixen » Fri Apr 17, 2009 9:56 pm

Please see my reply in this thread, maybe an someone is using it as a mark but I think it is trying to be deceptive.

viewtopic.php?t=12546

admin
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Postby admin » Fri Apr 17, 2009 10:45 pm

VV,
I've read it and I understand your concern, but cannot agree with your conclusions, they are far too expansive for the evidence at hand. This is a valid maker's mark for AR in Mexico City(DF), not a poor forgery of the Mexican Eagle Assay stamp. If you have found examples of his work with questionable standard marks, whether they were marked by this smith or a later hand is unknown. It makes sense to advise caution and testing on a per piece basis, but not to label his/her mark as a forgery of the government assay mark.

Personally, I think the bracelet's metal content is questionable, the sterling mark should be in proximity to the maker's mark, not way off by itself on the box catch. This hints that a later hand could be responsible for the sterling mark and it was not unknown for retailers to add marks to pieces after purchase from the makers.

Regards, Tom

ValkyrieVixen
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Postby ValkyrieVixen » Fri Apr 17, 2009 11:15 pm

Fake hallmark may have been the wrong term to use but people really need to be aware that the eagle head is not the proper Mexico assay mark. I see items listed all the time "Eagle Marked!" when it isn't the assay mark and is often an alpaca piece. Many people still think alpaca is sterling too but that's another issue. lol
It might be good to have it in the Mex mark section where the eagle mark is explained so there is no confusion.

sweetooth
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:52 pm
Location: Oklahoma

Eagle head mark bracelet

Postby sweetooth » Tue Jul 28, 2009 9:03 pm

It's my understanding that Taxco never used the eagle head mark, they used the whole eagle. I had a bracelet just like this, stamped sterling and marked JPR instead of AR, and it didn't test positive for sterling.
These were mass produced.
I have a problem with it being stamped by two cities, Taxco, and DF, for Districo Federal.
I just wouldn't count on an eagle head mark to be sterling.

abelux
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2009 12:16 am
Location: mexico

eagle

Postby abelux » Mon Dec 14, 2009 1:36 am

[img]Hey to all... I just replied now cause it's the first time I've seen this forum.

I am Mexican and been to Taxco many times and I even do some business with silver now and then...

The eagle head you se It's nothing else than a special sign or icon, if I may say. I'ts function is to represent the legend "Made in Mexico" over our own made products. We use the whole eagle to represent the country and it's Aztec/Spanish roots...

If you want you can make a search in google with the words "hecho en mexico". If you do, you will find something like this:

Image

The most likely is that the silversmith tried to mimic whatever version of the eagle design was out when this piece that you have was made. By the looks of it I could say that the bracelet has been some years around already.

Best

ab

Torra
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Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 3:27 pm

Re: Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Postby Torra » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:37 pm

What I and the original poster want to know is "Is it really silver". Whereas the question of "legitimate hallmark" speaks to the letter of the law, VV's answer was spot on as to the spirit of the question; Are these items real Silver or fakes (see: not AG)? It wasn't until Eagle posted that it was really made clear what seems to be going on. VV's comment that every piece she's seen with this Eagle Head mark is NOT SILVER was also helpful . VV's comments (and Eagle's) were certainly helpful to me and, I'm guessing to Seabrease as well.

1. This bracelet is marked both DF and Taxco. WOW, made in two places!??!?!

2. As the last poster explained the Eagle Head WITH "Made In Mexico" or "Hecho En Mexico" is similar to the USA "Flag" and the "Made in the USA" branding technique. So, What it looks like is someone took a legitimately hallmarked piece of Alpaca made in the D.F. and fraudulently added the Sterling Taxco hallmark.

(Face it, who would add a DF to a Taxco piece?!?!?)

Also, in support of VVs comments, I too have never seen a piece of jewelry with the Eagle Head that was also sterling silver. But, after the first few Alpaca pieces I erroneously purchased I just started avoiding them so, maybe my sample was too small.

All that being said, I would really appreciate seeing the information about the Hecho En Mexico/Made In Mexico Eagle Head, being added to the main section regarding Mexican Silver Hallmarks -- Eagle Stamps.

AG2012
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Re: Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Postby AG2012 » Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:27 pm

Have seen one bracelet today - the same design with carved stones and the same mark ``JPR`` with eagle head; "Hecho En Mexico DF``Then on the clasp ``sterling taxco`` with undecipherable letters in front of 925 and after it.
1. Let`s suppose there are makers with shops in the capital (Federal District) and silver made in Taxco - just a possibility.
2. Eagle head mark has nothing to do with legislated eagle mark, but probably allowed as the icon representing Mexico - acceptable.
3. Curiously, ``sterling`` is never close to the eagle head mark (have seen many similar pieces and always the same position of ``sterling`` on the clasp.Why?
4.Do not rely on marks, test it for silver! It seems many items are made of alpaca.

BebeT88
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:41 am

Re: Mexico Bracelet Marked DF

Postby BebeT88 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:18 am

These forums are very helpful! I have an alpaca bracelet marked DF and all of my questions were answered on this saved thread. It is true that, as time goes, more sellers are falsely listing alpaca as Sterling and price/misname them as Taxco pieces. Intentionally or not, there are many counterfeit pieces circulating and being made. Money money money...

CheronSD
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:46 am

Re: Mexico Bracelet Marked AR and eagle side profile

Postby CheronSD » Wed Jun 06, 2018 5:00 am

As time goes by and you study more and more sterling silver pieces you will find you will be able to identify alpaca at a glance, it has a very different look than real sterling silver. The piece being questioned in this thread is a well known alpaca design and it looks as if someone did indeed later stamp a sterling mark on the clasp. A shame as it gives all silver items a black eye because without experience we trust those marks. To quickly eliminate the question of sterling or alpaca, you can always carry with you a small rare earth magnet, sterling will not respond to the magnet, but alpaca will.


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