Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

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silverligther
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Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Thu Dec 22, 2016 7:09 am

I need help with the mark on this silver tray. There's a British lion passant on it but next to it is says "La Perla", so I'm wondering whether the origin is British or Mexican. Also I cannot identify the third mark on the far right. Might this be the Mexican eagle? On the front there's an engraving saying "1908 - 1933". It's a very thick material, so it's quite heavy.

Thank you for any help!

Image

AG2012
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby AG2012 » Thu Dec 22, 2016 8:36 am

Hi,
``La Perla`` was a seller of silver in Mexico City, Anita Brenner at Avenida Francisco I Madero No.38. The shop sold European jewelry and local silver.Lion passant on the tray is not British. The shop was in business since 1930.
Regards

dognose
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby dognose » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:04 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

Image
La Perla - Mexico City - 1907

Image
La Perla - Mexico City - 1922

Please remember in future posts to keep your images to within the 7" (18cm) width limit.

Trev.

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Thu Dec 22, 2016 12:09 pm

Thank you very much for the fast answers. Yes, I will keep the 7 inches limit in mind, sorry!
On the early Advertisement you added, I found the Names "Diener Hermannos" und after a short research I found that die Diener Family´s origin is Germany.
And their businesses activities where strong related to the Center of the German Gold and Silver Production, the town Pforzheim, which is very close to my place of residence. But I dont´t think the piece was produced in Germany.

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:14 pm

And maybe one step closer to the solution:
I discovered that Diener Hermannos marked the pieces produced in Mexico that were intended for the German and/or the European Market this way.
Maybe they chose the lion passant because this mark is well known for the content of 925/1000 in Britain. On some pieces they added "0800" or "080". This is less than 925, but it's the common content in Germany, so potential buyers on the German market would recognize the content is at least 800/1000. But there is no idea about the "bell-like" mark.

dognose
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby dognose » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:39 pm

Image

I think it is just a pseudo Leopard's Head London mark, struck upside down, but the interesting thing is, it appears to be over-striking another mark.

Trev.

dognose
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby dognose » Thu Dec 22, 2016 1:50 pm

Image

I wouldn't be surprised is there was something underneath the other mark also.

Trev.

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Thu Dec 22, 2016 2:04 pm

This is a very good idea. I think you are right. They cannot put european hallmarks on their products and the mexican marks were not common in Europe at this time. So they created related marks to ensure the buyer that he get a piece of real silver and not a cheap alloy.

Maybe someone has some knowledge obout the floral decoration, which is very elaborated and this can lead us to the origin of this work.
For me the very thick silver-sheet (1mm or more) looks like cast silver which is handwrought to the final design.

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Fri Dec 23, 2016 6:41 am

Image
Another Example of the pseudo lion and the pseudo panther on a bracelett.

AG2012
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby AG2012 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:15 am

There is a possibility they imported silver from Germany (at least jewelry and smaller items). Indirectly supported by .800 and later marked ``sterling``, and by an earlier input by a Portuguese member of the forum.
Further confusion is ``Tampico``, leopard`s head and lion passant, seen elsewhere.
Both items shown here must be genuine Diener brothers.
``La Perla `` was quoted by Anita Brenner in The Little Book of Mexican Silver Trade and Hallmarks: Hecho en Mexico by Bille Hougart, page 90
What`s ``R.M.`` depicted here ? Active since 1930?
http://www.silvercollection.it/MEXICOSILVERMARKSB.html
History of Diener family business in Mexico:
https://grandescasasdemexico.blogspot.r ... truck.html
The article in German:
http://www.mexiko.diplo.de/contentblob/ ... Diener.pdf

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:40 am

Hello AG2012,
thanks for the Links. The La Perla store was established 18. January 1903, you can find this in the German Article (Link Nr. 3).
So the information "active since 1930" on silvercollction.it is not correct. Die "RM" on the picture is supposed to be the maker, La Perla is the dealer.
And this leads to your question, did La Perla had an production of silver-wares by themselves? I think they only acted as a trade-company, not as manufacterers. And I agree "Tampico" is another confusion.

AG2012
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby AG2012 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:53 am

Hi,
The link in Spanish claims it was founded much earlier (1879 or 1881) by four brothers - Max, August, Richard and Adolf.
They had a factory in Pforzheim - Max Diener was in charge of it.
Regards

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:58 am

Yes, you are rigth. In 1879 Richard Diener (Don Ricardo Diener) established the name "La Perla".

AG2012
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby AG2012 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 11:24 am

This set was definitively made in Germany (Pforzheim).
Described as La Perla. Diener Hermanos, fineness .800.
Image

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:30 pm

Why Pforzheim? Because of the 800 alloy?
Maybe somebody can specify the technic of making the floral decoration, I add 2 detail fotographs, one from frontside, one from the back.
[img][IMG[IMG]http://i65.tinypic.com/ngalv5.jpg[/img]]http://i65.tinypic.com/ngalv5.jpg[/img]Image[/img]

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:33 pm

Image

dognose
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby dognose » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:10 pm

There was, what appears to be, another business, Huseman & Grebe (La Perla), Tampico

They were one of three La Perla's contained within the Enemy Trading List of 1918

Perla, La (Diener Hermanos, Tarlos Marquez Perez), Mexico City. (December 5, 1917.)
Perla, La (Federico Lopez), Orizaba. (August 23, 1918.)
Perla, La (Huseman & Grebe), Tampico. (July 26, 1918.)


Source: Trading with the Enemy - United States War Trade Board - 1919

Trev.

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:52 pm

Good Source to eleminate confusions. Thanks!

AG2012
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby AG2012 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:19 pm

Hi,
Why Pforzheim? Because of the 800 alloy?

Because there was Diener family business in Pforzheim,and well established connections.
Decoration is embossed and chased.

silverligther
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Re: Lion passant on mexican Silver La Perla

Postby silverligther » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:08 am

Yes, an maybe one will find on the blades "Solingen" or "Rostfrei" that would makes it clear.

Concerning the lion passant and leopards-head pseudos: Meanwhile I think, that the Diener Brothers put this marks on some of their items according to the tradition of the hanau pseudos. They were Germans and the know the background of the hanau marking. So we maybe can establish here the new description-terms La Perla pseudo- or Mexican pseudo- marks. What do you think about that?


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