Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

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Wanderer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Wanderer »

Hi, I am looking for some help identifying the maker's mark on this wind caddy.

First, about the hallmark. I have inspected the piece thoroughly and have only found the single hallmark. The hallmark is a distinct Cyrillic capital letter A with a tiny star in the top left corner. I have checked for similar hallmarks across a number of sites and think that it is probably a Russian hallmark. My only other guess is that it is British, but that does not explain the lack of the additional markings such as metal purity or country of origin. If the piece was British then I might consider the star of what is called a Mullet.

Second, the use of the item. I originally thought the item maybe held a dinner dish of some sort, but later I checked the ability for the item to properly hold a standard wine bottle, and it's a perfect fit. The dimensions of the piece are length 12 inches x height 8 inches x width 4 inches.

Third, the composition of the material. As a jeweler I noticed that there was no actual corrosion to the piece. I also inspected it for any signs of plating or distinct smells and it has none. I have also checked underneath to remove the tarnish, revealing a lustrous original blacksmith's sterling finish and short of acid testing the piece I am positive it is sterling. A note about the photos, the yellowish glow is a secondary light that is reflecting.

Finally the background about this item. This is an estate sale find. I honestly don't know anything about the origins of the piece. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This is my first time posting to this site, and appreciate any feedback about the post in general. Thanks.
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AG2012
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Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by AG2012 »

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
First of all, it is NOT Russian, and not British,either, as you suspected (no hallmarks).
I suppose, being a jeweler, you performed a reliable acid test after deep filing (items are damaged sometimes when doing that).
So, if it`s sterling, and having this mark I opt for American piece.That`s all I can tell:cannot recognize maker`s initials.
Regards
Qrt.S
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Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Qrt.S »

I'm a bit doubtful about the material being sterling. If it would be 925 silver I would expect sterling marks on it and there is none. Objects in sterling are very often properly marked with "Sterling, 925.... Usually such pieces are made in German silver and often plated. That would explain the "missing" silver marks. Moreover, you state: "Cyrillic capital letter A..." !? Mind my asking but what's the difference to a Latin capital A? The holder is under no circumstances Russian as AG2012 already stated.
Wanderer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Wanderer »

AG2012 wrote:Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
First of all, it is NOT Russian, and not British,either, as you suspected (no hallmarks).
I suppose, being a jeweler, you performed a reliable acid test after deep filing (items are damaged sometimes when doing that).
So, if it`s sterling, and having this mark I opt for American piece.That`s all I can tell:cannot recognize maker`s initials.
Regards
Yes I agree that is most likely an American piece. With a little more research on my part, I realized the design of the piece is in the Georgian Style. Also the maker's mark is very similar to the John Adams makers mark. But none of the listed hallmarks associated with John Adams are a match, nor do they have a star in the hallmark.

Second, no I have not acid tested the piece, and even then as you stated I would have to do a deep filing. Thanks for taking the time to respond to this post.
Wanderer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Wanderer »

Qrt.S wrote:I'm a bit doubtful about the material being sterling. If it would be 925 silver I would expect sterling marks on it and there is none. Objects in sterling are very often properly marked with "Sterling, 925.... Usually such pieces are made in German silver and often plated. That would explain the "missing" silver marks. Moreover, you state: "Cyrillic capital letter A..." !? Mind my asking but what's the difference to a Latin capital A? The holder is under no circumstances Russian as AG2012 already stated.
Yes there are a few mistakes in the original post, it doesn't appear that I can edit posts!! Yes I stated that is was a Cyrillic A, but it's actually a Latin A but sometimes that Latin is used in Russian hallmarks, as it is elsewhere.

Yea, when I think about the piece there is something strange about the position of the hallmark. I might consider seeing this hallmark position on the use of an import mark? I have no idea really, and am new to understanding hallmarks.

Also as stated in the above response I realized that the piece is in the Georgian Style and have read many of the pieces in that style pre-date the use Nickle-Silver or Silver Plating, though it should still be properly marked. I am considering cleaning up the piece, maybe there is another identifying mark somewhere. Also I think most Nickle-Silver was also properly marked by the maker? Unless it is a forgery I think.That being said I do not think it is a forgery, unless it is a very old forgery. Again I do not know enough about this.

Also thanks for your response I definitely appreciate the feedback.
AG2012
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Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by AG2012 »

Hello again,
I would suggest proper cleaning and searching for more marks.
Then,definitive answer whether it`s silver (either sterling or lower fineness, not much difference).
As a jeweler you will know how to test it. Laymen often rely on senses,color, smell, temperature etc. but not professionals.
Btw. I do not think it`s a forgery of any kind. Fakers do it for profit with lucrative pieces and lucrative marks.
Regards
Qrt.S
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Location: Helsinki Finland

Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Qrt.S »

The problem with objects in nickel silver, German silver, alpacka....plated, etc. is that there are neither any local nor any international standards of how to mark them. Plated items are not hallmarked but only marked as it pleases the maker. A hallmark is an official mark punched by the assay office guaranteeing a certain fineness depending on its origin i.e. country. No, it is not a forgery.
Wanderer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Wanderer »

Qrt.S wrote:The problem with objects in nickel silver, German silver, alpacka....plated, etc. is that there are neither any local nor any international standards of how to mark them. Plated items are not hallmarked but only marked as it pleases the maker. A hallmark is an official mark punched by the assay office guaranteeing a certain fineness depending on its origin i.e. country. No, it is not a forgery.
Thank you for the clarification Qrt.S!
Wanderer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Wanderer »

So I went ahead and cleaned the item. There is really good news. Not only did the item clean up well, but there is another partial mark beside the first mark. There is also a second mark on the base of the item.

So for the first set of marks, the cleaning now shows two Latin letters, an A and maybe a G? Also now there are clearly not one, but four stars around the first mark. The second mark is so partial that I can't even begin to say what it is. Using an 8x loop it does look something like part of a letter.

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So for the second mark, it's partially worn but it is clearly a small duck. The duck has a tiny dot in the middle that can not be seen in the photos similar to the eye.

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I will also add the link for the other photos such as the full pic after cleaning.

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Wanderer
Posts: 6
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 pm

Re: Wine Bottle Caddy or Holder

Post by Wanderer »

For reference I don't think the duck is a mark. It just looks like a mark.
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