Heavy gold Bracelet

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
binbags
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby binbags » Wed Jul 20, 2016 7:16 am

Hi

This is my first post to your forum and wonder if you can help me in identifying the hallmarks and karrat. I will now attempt to upload the required pictures for you to have a look at.

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The first picture is of the open clasp with the hallmarks, the top mark is of an animal maybe a wolf the one under this has a letter or symbol "B" or a bell then the numbers under this are"279". The weight of the whole brocelet is 91 gramms.

I have used macro on my camera and the stamp mark is not all that clear even with a 20X stereo microscope.

I look forward to your replys

Thanks in advance

dognose
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Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby dognose » Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:56 am

Hi,

Welcome to the Forum.

We really need better images of the marks, but on the face of it, you appear to have an 18ct gold Spanish bracelet made by a Barcelona registered goldsmith.

Try taking some images in natural daylight, no flash.

Trev.

binbags
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby binbags » Wed Jul 20, 2016 11:39 am

Hi Trev

Thank you for the quick reply. Sorry about the poor quality of the pictures, what I need to do is obtain a camera adaptor for my Russian stereo inspection microscope, at least this is a 20X magnification. I will take some more shots though, without flash.

Your reply as to its origin is very good. The previous owner of this item, who was a close friend, lived in Spain for many years. This is where I am sure he bought it from.
Are you at liberty to tell me about the Wolf or whatever animal it is? Also about the “B” or bell and the 279, which is an unusual karat marking.
I have tried 4 of my cameras now and none are good enough to produce an enlarged image for you to see, I have a Nikon D7000, but I do not have a macro lens for it.
The animal is standing and facing with its head to my left. The next symbol below is either a “B” or an “8” squashed top and bottom followed by 279 underneath.
Can I ask you what makes you think it’s 18ct?
I will have to find someone with the correct close-up camera.
Once again Trev thank you for the reply.

dognose
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Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby dognose » Wed Jul 20, 2016 4:13 pm

Hi,

Also about the “B” or bell and the 279, which is an unusual karat marking.


This would be the registered mark of the goldsmith, the 'B' identifies Barcelona. It is not an indicator of the gold standard, but the other mark should be.

I have very little in the way of Spanish information, but hopefully you can capture a close-up of the mark and that may reveal more.

Trev.

binbags
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby binbags » Thu Jul 21, 2016 3:38 am

This would be the registered mark of the goldsmith, the 'B' identifies Barcelona. It is not an indicator of the gold standard, but the other mark should be.

I have very little in the way of Spanish information, but hopefully you can capture a close-up of the mark and that may reveal more.

Trev.


Hi Trev

Thanks for the reply. Common sense, B = Barcelona when it's pointed out to you, but not being a jeweller, you tend to think in standard mode. I am an ex precision photographic engineer and was taught to think outside the box, but sometimes when the obvious is there, you don’t see it.

I am about to venture into the loft, as I have a USB microscope up there somewhere, this may solve the close-up shots that I need.

Bye for now.

Alan

binbags
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Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby binbags » Thu Jul 21, 2016 11:35 am

Hi Trev

Having sent you the email this morning, it took me all 20 mins to find the USB miroscope, the only thing missing was the driver disk. It has taken me untill now to get the thing working...........6/7 hours

Here we go with some images for you, still not great because of the magnification, No 1 is 10x and the other two are X60 and X10.

Image

Image

Image

Hope these help you, I could try one more of the top stamp (the Wolf)


Alan

dognose
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Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby dognose » Thu Jul 21, 2016 1:58 pm

Hi Alan,

I could try one more of the top stamp (the Wolf)


Yes, please.

Trev.

binbags
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby binbags » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:26 am

Hi Trev

OK have done some more shots of the top stamp mark, not sure they will help you, but I hope they do. I now look at the results and because of the 60X magnification my eyes see something else, a wolf, a dog, a jelly fish!! Because the photo is only 2D, it's not easy. But with my fingers crossed you may recognise the symbol this time.
I have converted some of the photos to a negative shot or a black and white, just to give you a better chance of recognising it. As you will see the stamp marks are quite small for such a chunky piece of work, my thoughts only.
Good luck.

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Regards Alan

dognose
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Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby dognose » Fri Jul 22, 2016 4:53 am

Hi Alan,

Great work, and many thanks for posting the extra images. The top mark, a lion's (?) head erased facing left with the tongue extended contained within an oval cartouche appears to match the illustration in my source with the following description in German:

SPANIEN, ab 1934; Gegenstände aus Gold 750/1000

750/1000 would equate to 18ct.

I'm afraid that's all the information that I can find at the moment, hopefully another member can expand on it. The identity of the maker may reveal much.

Trev.

binbags
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 6:32 am
Location: Derbyshire UK

Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby binbags » Fri Jul 22, 2016 5:29 am

Hi Trev

Quick response, great. This all ties in with the original owner of this bracelet. He was German and lived in Spain for many years, before marrying an English girl and settling down here in the UK. He passed away in 1998; we were great friends for many years. So this item plus a ring came to me in 2003. I will do some shots of the ring, because it has been reduced in size and I think most of the hallmark has gone, but may have been made by the same jeweller. I have to repair some of our parquet flooring, it has started to rise in this heat, so I will get those shots to you as soon as I can.

Great thanks to you once again, for tying up a few loose ends.

Alan

Brigetta
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Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:47 pm

Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby Brigetta » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:55 pm

Very interested in the meaning of the “279” on this item. Could someone please explain in more detail? Thanks!

Aguest
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Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby Aguest » Tue Oct 02, 2018 4:19 pm

Fantastic job with your pics, some of the best pics I have yet seen, really they are quite beautiful :::

The "wolf hallmark" might be an image of the "Capitoline Wolf" which is a famous image which depicts a she-wolf with the twins Romulus and Remus who were the founders of Rome ::: So you might be looking for a Maker's Mark which is a "Capitoline Wolf" image :::

Apparently this Capitoline Wolf image was used to promote the 1960 Olympics, but that might be completely irrelevant :::

AG2012
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Re: Heavy gold Bracelet

Postby AG2012 » Tue Oct 02, 2018 5:20 pm

Hi,
For Spanish silver marks see here:
https://www.925-1000.com/foreign_marks6.html

Maker`s mark in hexagon is the same for gold and silver, and similar to Italian system, i.e. makers registration numbers with region designated with letters.
In this case the maker in Barcelona was assigned reg.number 279.
Regards


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