Here it says M = 1841
http://925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php ... hle#p68232
Here it says M = 1786
http://silberpunze.freehost.ag/index.php
I cant find the vital statistics of the maker (Johann Adolph Kahle). So which one is it?
Dresden: date letter M
Re: Dresden: date letter M
The latter: 1841. (Not 1840; Theodorich's very helpful table is a little hard to read, since the text aligns with the lower edge of the image, not the top)
From what I have been able to cobble together about the 19th century Kahles from Dresden city directories and vital records, it appears the patriarch was goldsmith Carl Adolph Kahle (ca. 1839-1799), He had four sons, all gold & silversmiths:
The Kahle dynasty of silversmiths continued with Carl August's son Carl Moritz Kahle, listed 1831-1866: baptized 8 May 1802; married 26 Nov 1832 to Adolphina Elenora Claudius; died 23 Aug 1866
Hope this helps!
From what I have been able to cobble together about the 19th century Kahles from Dresden city directories and vital records, it appears the patriarch was goldsmith Carl Adolph Kahle (ca. 1839-1799), He had four sons, all gold & silversmiths:
- Carl August Kahle, listed 1809-1843: born ca. Aug 1773; married 14 Jan 1801 to Christiane Friederike Ulbrichs; died 24 Apr 1843
Johann Adolph Kahle, listed 1809-1837: baptized 8 Aug 1774; married 23 May 1813 to Johanna Rosina Nitzsche; Died 16 Nov 1837
Johann Heinrich Kahle, listed 1820-1840: born ca. 1776; died 14 Dec 1840
Christian Gottlieb Kahle, listed 1816-1817: baptized 30 Jul 1782; buried 22 Jan 1816
The Kahle dynasty of silversmiths continued with Carl August's son Carl Moritz Kahle, listed 1831-1866: baptized 8 May 1802; married 26 Nov 1832 to Adolphina Elenora Claudius; died 23 Aug 1866
Hope this helps!
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Re: Dresden: date letter M
This was very helpful, thank you a lot!
There is a lot of differing information on the internet, which makes it quite frustrating for beginners like me.
E.g. here M = 1785
http://hallmarkwiki.com/?ShowHallmark=3628
I have spoons from the 1790s that look very much alike. Was it usual to copy old shapes in the 1840s? Or did i misinterpret the makers mark?
There is a lot of differing information on the internet, which makes it quite frustrating for beginners like me.
E.g. here M = 1785
http://hallmarkwiki.com/?ShowHallmark=3628
I have spoons from the 1790s that look very much alike. Was it usual to copy old shapes in the 1840s? Or did i misinterpret the makers mark?
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Re: Dresden: date letter M
A 1702 A 1726 A 1750 A 1775 A 1800 A 1830 A 1855
B 1703 B 1727 B 1751 B 1776 B 1801 B 1831 B 1856
C 1704 C 1728 C 1752 C 1777 C 1802 C 1832 C 1857
D 1705 D 1729 D 1753 D 1778 D 1803 D 1833 D 1858
E 1706 E 1730 E 1754 E 1779 E 1804 E 1834 E 1859
F 1707 F 1731 F 1755 F 1780 A 1805 F 1835 F 1860
G 1708 G 1732 G 1756 G 1781 B 1806 G 1836 G 1861
H 1709 H 1733 H 1757 H 1782 C 1807 H 1837 H 1862
I 1710 I 1734 I 1758 I 1783 D 1808 I 1838 I 1863
K 1711 K 1735 K 1759 K 1784 E 1809 K 1839 K 1864
L 1712 L 1736 L 1760 L 1785 F 1810 L 1840 L 1865
M 1713 M 1737 M 1761 M 1786 G 1811 M 1841 M 1866
N 1714 N 1738 N 1762 N 1787 H 1812 N 1842 N 1867
O 1715 O 1739 O 1763 O 1788 I 1813 O 1843 O 1868
P 1716 P 1740 P 1764 P 1789 K 1814 P 1844 P 1869
Q 1717 Q 1741 Q 1765 Q 1790 L 1815 Q 1845 Q 1870
R 1718 R 1742 R 1766 R 1791 M 1816 R 1846
S 1719 S 1743 S 1767 S 1792 N 1817 S 1847
T 1720 T 1744 T 1768 T 1793 O 1818 T 1848
V 1721 V 1745 U 1769 U 1794 P 1819 U 1849
W 1722 W 1746 V 1770 V 1795 Q 1820 V 1850
X 1723 X 1747 W 1771 W 1796 R 1821 W 1851
Y 1724 Y 1748 X 1772 X 1797 S 1822 X 1852
Z 1725 Z 1749 Y 1773 Y 1798 T 1823 Y 1853
Z 1774 Z 1799 U 1824 Z 1854
V 1825
W 1826
X 1827
Y 1828
Z 1829
B 1703 B 1727 B 1751 B 1776 B 1801 B 1831 B 1856
C 1704 C 1728 C 1752 C 1777 C 1802 C 1832 C 1857
D 1705 D 1729 D 1753 D 1778 D 1803 D 1833 D 1858
E 1706 E 1730 E 1754 E 1779 E 1804 E 1834 E 1859
F 1707 F 1731 F 1755 F 1780 A 1805 F 1835 F 1860
G 1708 G 1732 G 1756 G 1781 B 1806 G 1836 G 1861
H 1709 H 1733 H 1757 H 1782 C 1807 H 1837 H 1862
I 1710 I 1734 I 1758 I 1783 D 1808 I 1838 I 1863
K 1711 K 1735 K 1759 K 1784 E 1809 K 1839 K 1864
L 1712 L 1736 L 1760 L 1785 F 1810 L 1840 L 1865
M 1713 M 1737 M 1761 M 1786 G 1811 M 1841 M 1866
N 1714 N 1738 N 1762 N 1787 H 1812 N 1842 N 1867
O 1715 O 1739 O 1763 O 1788 I 1813 O 1843 O 1868
P 1716 P 1740 P 1764 P 1789 K 1814 P 1844 P 1869
Q 1717 Q 1741 Q 1765 Q 1790 L 1815 Q 1845 Q 1870
R 1718 R 1742 R 1766 R 1791 M 1816 R 1846
S 1719 S 1743 S 1767 S 1792 N 1817 S 1847
T 1720 T 1744 T 1768 T 1793 O 1818 T 1848
V 1721 V 1745 U 1769 U 1794 P 1819 U 1849
W 1722 W 1746 V 1770 V 1795 Q 1820 V 1850
X 1723 X 1747 W 1771 W 1796 R 1821 W 1851
Y 1724 Y 1748 X 1772 X 1797 S 1822 X 1852
Z 1725 Z 1749 Y 1773 Y 1798 T 1823 Y 1853
Z 1774 Z 1799 U 1824 Z 1854
V 1825
W 1826
X 1827
Y 1828
Z 1829
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Re: Dresden: date letter M
Your spoon is from 1841orthogonal wrote:This was very helpful, thank you a lot!
There is a lot of differing information on the internet, which makes it quite frustrating for beginners like me.
E.g. here M = 1785
http://hallmarkwiki.com/?ShowHallmark=3628
I have spoons from the 1790s that look very much alike. Was it usual to copy old shapes in the 1840s? Or did i misinterpret the makers mark?
I find the makersmark I.A.K: of Johann Adolph Kahle with an other hallmark
there is a G under crossing swords
Makersmark F.A.K??
The M-Mark of 1786:
M-Mark from 1816:
M-Mark from 1841:
But why M is 1786 but not 1785?
Rosenberg missed the U-Mark of 1769. After 1768 Rosenbergs yearsletters are not correkt.
There are some different variants of yearsletters in 18th Century.
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Re: Dresden: date letter M
Thank you for your patience! I really appreciate your help.
Re: Dresden: date letter M
Hello orthogonal,orthogonal wrote: I have spoons from the 1790s that look very much alike. Was it usual to copy old shapes in the 1840s? Or did i misinterpret the makers mark?
you are right, the shape of your spoon is indeed a 18th century shape and was not common in the 19th century (may be it was a contract work for a nostalgic person).
The only difference to the 18th century spoons from Dresden I know, is the place of the marks. Marks and assayers zigzag test line on the back side of the handle (like on your spoon) on Dresden-spoons I only know in the advanced 19th. century.
regards,
Ringo