Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

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Traintime
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Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby Traintime » Tue Jul 30, 2019 8:18 pm

I'm confused...so what's new? This seems to be 1870 old Queens pattern on angled shape of 1868 Rosette body. Spoon indicates PAT. 68. Retailed by Starr & Marcus New York. Is there a "Duh!" in here somewhere?

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silverly
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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby silverly » Tue Jul 30, 2019 10:05 pm

Design Patent Number D03726 patented 1 December 1868.

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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby silverly » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:05 pm

I have been able to find a match to this pattern that I think fits. It's called Fleur de Lis and commonly assigned the patent year 1865. 1865 looks most likely to be an error that has been perpetuated over the years. We'll have to wait to here from others that have more expertise than myself to confirm my research.

Traintime
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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby Traintime » Wed Jul 31, 2019 9:13 pm

I found a couple of like ones handled by another famous retailer and including the Patent Applied For mark. Same shape, same pattern. Obviously correct from the start whether called FdL or Queens. Guess we can say with certainty 1868.

silverly
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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby silverly » Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:58 am

You're welcome.

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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby dragonflywink » Thu Aug 01, 2019 11:39 am

The most reliable reference for this would be Carpenter's 'Gorham Silver 1831-1981' (1982), it shows 'Fleur de LIs' introduced in 1868 (in accord with the patent date), and also shows an extremely similar pattern with slightly larger more rounded shoulders at the top and no beveling along the stem, as 'Queens', introduced circa 1870. Turner's 'American SIlver Flatware 1837-1910' (1972) shows both names, with 'Fleur de Lis' introduced in 1865 and 'Queens' introduced in 1870. My 1977 JCK 'Sterling Flatware Pattern Index' shows only 'Fleur-de-Lis', and as introduced in 1865 - if this is an error that goes back to earlier editions, that may be where the incorrect date in Turner came from, and if continued in later editions, would add to the use of that date...

~Cheryl

Traintime
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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby Traintime » Wed Aug 07, 2019 1:20 am

Belated "Thank You!"...always rushing on and off the road and trying to catch up to where things were. I appreciate all the people who work so hard to add to this site.

silverly
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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby silverly » Wed Aug 07, 2019 10:28 am

Here's the Fleur-de-lis patent. I think this relatively early flatware patent is usual in that the pattern name is given. Image
Image

Traintime
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Re: Gorham old Queens Patent 1868?

Postby Traintime » Sat Aug 10, 2019 2:49 pm

Mucho Gracias! Can't get more definitive evidence than that!


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