Mystery Engraving on Snuff Box

[dognose]

Hi,

Can anyone determine the meaning of the engraving on this double snuff box, assayed at Birmingham in 1808:













The engraving on one side appears to read 'RECORDANZA', and on the other 'L'AMY'TYE'.

Perhaps long-forgotten names for blends of snuff? Or is it perhaps another meaning?

Any thoughts appreciated.

Trev.

[silverly]

Maybe something along the lines of remembered friend, L'Amytye Recordanza

[dognose]

Hi Silverly,

Thanks for the suggestion. What language would that be?

Trev.

[silverly]

I don't know. A truly wild guess is that it is somewhat anglicized French. Hopefully someone with first hand knowledge will offer assistance soon.

[davidross]

I agree with Silverly, it looks like some form of "remembrance of friendship."

While I claim no expertise in either of these languages, it seems that "recordanza" is Spanish, while "l'amytye" is Renaissance French.

If the snuff box was originally a present, the engraving might signify something known only to the giver and receiver. For instance, it is tempting to imagine that the giver and receiver knew each other, or first met, long ago in Spain and France, or that one was Spanish and the other French.

Of course, someone else may provide a more concrete, or plausible, answer.

Regards
DR

[dognose]

Many thanks to you both for your thoughts, they seem entirely feasible.

I wonder if the piece may have some connection with the Peninsular War?

Trev.

[Joerg]

Hi Trev

It is an interesting idea to connect the item to the Peninsular War. Could be, however the "recordanza" could also be bad spelled Italian, not necessary Spanish. "L'amytye" does not fit well into a Peninsular War background. However, I was thinking a bit:
This is a snuff box made for use, not originally intended as a gift of high value. If it is Peninsular War then it came to Spain/Portugal as the personal property of an officer. He passed it on to a local officer as a gift, which would require the engraving and the decoration made locally, in Spain/Portugal. My question is, would the style of the engraving support or reject such scenarios? Is this engraving a typical British work of the early 1800's? Or is it very exotic, but common in Spain, Portugal, or Italy?
I am just guessing, would an officer order snuff boxes in Birmingham with this text as gifts to future fellow officers? Very unlikly. So if the engraving is typical for UK at this time I would rule out a Peninsular War background.
However we have still many other (romantic?) explanations.

Regards

Jörg

[dognose]

Hi Jörg,

Thank you for your thoughts, they are appreciated.

I can't speak of Spanish engraving styles, as my knowledge of the subject is zero, but I see no reason why this engraving is not done by an English hand.

My speculative link to the Peninsular War was due to the date-England-Spain combination, but the inscription may well be entirely unconnected with that event and purely personal in its content. However, at the moment it must remain a mystery.

Trev.

[davidross]

I was thinking along similar lines to Trev, but feared it a stretch too far to suggest the Napoleonic Wars.

While going even further out on a limb, linguistically speaking, it seems that "memoranza" may also be Portuguese as well as Spanish. A native speaker f Portuguese would need to confirm this, of course.

If this is true, then it would seem plausible that an English officer would have had such a snuff box engraved for presentation to a Portuguese officer, in commemoration of the British-Portuguese alliance during the Peninsular War.

It would be very interesting to know if Lt-Gen Sir Arthur Wellesley or other British commanders exchanged gifts with their Portuguese counterparts, or even if such exchanges were customary at that time, as I believe they indeed were between political and military leaders during the world wars of the last century. In April 1809, Wellesley returned to Portugal from Britain and assumed command of all British-Portuguese troops. Coincidentally, the snuff box dates to 1808.

Again, without any clear historical record of such a gift, this musing is only the stuff of pipe dreams, but perhaps with some extensive digging, the provenance of the snuff box will come to light.

Regards,

DR

[JLDoggett]

Curiouser and curiouser! I read the engraving as by 2 distinct hands. The body of decoration is simplistic and in certain areas almost crude. The uniformity of depth of the lines and weakness of design is sharply contrasted with the lettering. The lettering was by a more practiced hand showing a refined skill and confidence. Note the use of beauty strokes on the curves, the varied depth and width of the strokes and sharpness of corners and meet-points. I notice that the background of the lid and bottom has a line texture, does that show on the inside of the letters? does it stop shy of the letters? if it stops shy of the letters it was most likely added after the lettering was done, if it goes through the letters it would have had to be done before. As for the style of the engraving... the pattern on the sides is almost archaic for 1808, the floret and leaf pattern is dead on for the period and the lettering in a bit later in style, more 1840.

Just my read on the patterns, their application, and execution.

[Joerg]

This mystery is fun.
As I indicated in my complicated way of explaining, I do not think it is related to the Peninsular War. My guesses go toward another (romantic) explaination.
We have here a typical problem which requires assumptions for solving. I may remind in this place to Occam's razor:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam%27s_razor
So we should keep the list of assumtions small. What is the simplest, most unspectacular solution?
I like the statement from JLDoggett about the two hands. It makes sense. Also I start to think the engraving was made in UK. The style is Blackletter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackletter
This is likely to be made in UK, maybe later than 1808. We can assume this needed a specialist to engrave. So in the workshop the letters were done by the specialist, while the other decoration was done by a less experienced person.
I think the key to the solution is the word L'AMYTYE. Sounds definitely from latin language origin. It was pointed out Old French. I think it is a code language of two English speaking persons, using latin styled words for coded communication. I understand this was rather common at this time, to communicate with codes. In an environment so precisly described in the novels of Jane Austin, this box can be present to a beloved man. It reads "Remembered Friend" as Silverly pointed out. Just with difficult to read letters and latin language (French, Italian, Spanish, Portugese....) based words.
I think this would be a simple, undramatic solution with little assumptions.

Regards

Jörg

[dognose]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

The item belongs to a friend of mine who sent me the images as he thought the box may be of interest to the forum, and he was indeed correct.

Following JL's question regarding the engraving, I requested of him some more images and and below are the two that I have just received:





I think it clearly shows that the lines do stop shy of the lettering.

Trev.

[JLDoggett]

Trev,

That ups my assessment of the second engraver. To line a background like that and to do the interiors of the letters needs either a fool or a very skilled hand. One slip and you have ruined the item. The font still looks to be of a later date. I typically associate later Georgian with more open and flowing script with pips and flourishes. This very heavy script was not popular until Victoria took the throne.

Jim

[dognose]

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for your insight into the engraving, it is appreciated.

Trev.

[agphile]

Just a belated and very speculative suggestion. I recall that in my pipe-smoking youth I thought it clever to mix my own tobacco. The good tobacconist would have jars of different tobaccos, sometimes with quite exotic names. Tobacco mixtures could similarly be given fanciful names. Might the engraving simply identify the snuff mixtures kept in each compartment?

[dognose]

Hi Agphile,

I too had the same thoughts (see opening post), but despite searching was unable to find any link in that direction. However, the thought is not impossible and may well still have some value to it, as with tea, coffee, etc., people did blend such things at home themselves, and if successful in finding their personal favourite recipe, then why not give it a name as well!

Trev.

[agphile]

Sorry - I should have re-read your initial post. I imagine I didn't chip in with this thought earlier precisely because you had it first, but I think it is a more probable explanation than trying to construct a message across two languages.