Captain spoons

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Hose_dk
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Postby Hose_dk » Thu Dec 10, 2009 5:35 pm

ah ein kaufmann

Christian Gottlieb Unger

http://www.becker.libau-kurland-baltiku ... libau.html
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Fri Dec 11, 2009 4:31 am

So, am I correct in assuming that Christian Gottlieb Unger was a merchant in Libau in 1815?

Trev.
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Hose_dk
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Postby Hose_dk » Fri Dec 11, 2009 5:21 am

Yes you see his signature in the link. He signed just over the mark. And he is mentioned with full name in the text.
Google is amazing when you have the right clue.
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Fri Dec 11, 2009 6:04 am

Hi Hose,

Thanks for the confirmation.

Trev.
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Hose_dk
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Postby Hose_dk » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:20 pm

Image Image Image Image Image

So my spoon arrived.
43 gram different engraving as described. same weight as 2 of the others third a bit less.
The 3 marked Kecker, 12, year mark, Königsberg+12
the new one marked 12 KECKER 12 - no city or year mark.

Wonder if it is newer or older than the other.
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Hose_dk
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Postby Hose_dk » Mon Jan 04, 2010 7:27 pm

Jakjo has made some very interesting observations regarding this spoon. So we add a link to the debate.
viewtopic.php?t=18858
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Scotrab
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Postby Scotrab » Mon Apr 19, 2010 1:53 pm

Hose_dk wrote:At one occation I tryed to buy a spoon from Pillau with LLOYDS SHIP AGENTS engraved but price was to high. Pilau = Baltiysk today.
I have see pictures of Ernst Castell from Königsberg and Mayer & Comp. Reval (Tallin)
Image
Jacob Harmsen Jun Libau, Benj. Schmidt Pillau, Hans Diedr Schmidt Pernau
Image


The second image is from a Swedish book, probably an annual report from a Swedish museum. Would it be possible to have the precise reference, i.e. title, author, year of publication etc?
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Hose_dk
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Postby Hose_dk » Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:28 pm

Kulturens årbok and yes what the name? I will revert when I find.
But look here http://www.veenkoloniaalmuseum.nl/Kapit ... JV2004.pdf
large pdf in some language - I must try.
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Scotrab
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Postby Scotrab » Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:36 pm

Thank you very much. I have the Veenkolonialmuseum report (it's in Dutch). I look forward to hearing from you when you find the rest of the reference. Thankyou in advance.
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Hose_dk
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Postby Hose_dk » Fri Apr 23, 2010 12:46 am

Here is the reference that I had. Library found it and I photocopyed the pages in question.
Nils Nilssons article in Kulturens årsbok 1965. "Skepparns hatt"

Yesterday I found an article in Danish from 1969 in the magazine "Skalk" no 3, 1969. I had it myself but did not know of the article. Author did not know much but he was also a pioneer. He suggest that when a dane finds a spoon from Riga Königsberg etc it is most likely a skipper ske - even without any inscription. His argument is that these spoons should not be present in Denmark unless they where skipper spoons. A reasonable argument I soppose.
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Scotrab
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Postby Scotrab » Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:52 am

Very many thanks for the reference. Now I can ask the library service to get me a copy of it. For several years I have been slowly collecting spoons and reference material, with the ultimate goal to write up something not only about the spoons and the makers (this is relatively easy) but about their historical background: shipping, trading, family life etc. It is very slow work and sources are not always easy to find or to understand. However, I found museums to be always very helpful. Many thanks again for your help and information.
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oel
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Postby oel » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:36 am

Hi, herewith in the Dutch the meaning of the word KAPLAKEN and an improvised translation into English.
Kaplaken
Let op: Spelling van 1858 oorspronkelijk, eene toelage of gratificatie, die den schipper of scheepskapitein van den bevrachter genoot; thans echter verstaat men door dit woord eene percentsgewijze opslag op de vracht, waarvan de kapiteins, bij eenige reederijen, nog een aandeel genieten

Kaplaken
Note: Spelling of 1858 original, an allowance or bonus, which the skipper or ship captain of the charter enjoyed, now, however, means by this word a percentagewise part of the value of the cargo, which the masters, with one or various shipping companies, still enjoy a share in.

Herewith a link to the Fries Scheepsvaart Museum for more silver cargadoors lepels or ship brokers spoons.

http://www.friesscheepvaartmuseum.nl/nl ... ssouvenirs

Regards

Oel
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dognose
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Postby dognose » Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:42 am

Here are a pair of spoons that are engraved with the name of Robt. Kleyenstüber & Co. Pillau.

Image

Image

Image

Image

As can be seen, these are rather worn examples and I've found it almost impossible to capture a decent image of the engraving.

Trev.
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Scotrab
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Postby Scotrab » Fri Apr 23, 2010 9:24 am

Thank you for the additional references. All museums in Friesland (both Dutch and German) have numerous references to the past shipping and maritime trade, and have numerous photos of what they call "souvenirs", as oel indicates with the URL to the Frisian Museum. Dognose's Kleyenstüber Pillau spoon is interesting for a different reason. Robert Kleyenstüber agency was based in Königsberg and was quite large. The Captain's Spoons' world is awash with spoons from him/them. However, the original ship's channel into Königsberg's harbour proper was quite narrow and shallow and only ships with a relatively shallow draft (i.e. fairly small) could enter and unload. All other ships had to make fast at Pillau and unload their cargo to the smaller vessels that could enter Königsberg. After the mid-1800s the channel was widened and dredged and the importance of Pillau decreased dramatically, and with it its main source of income, and became mainly a tourist resort. Clearly R. Kleyenstüber had an outside office in Pillau to coordinate operations with their main agency in Königsberg.
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silverport
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Captains - or Kaflak spoons of the Baltic Sea area

Postby silverport » Fri Apr 23, 2010 3:00 pm

Hello

Maybe my following rough translation from Dutch to English could help, to understand an informative text, found by Hose_dk:

http://www.veenkoloniaalmuseum.nl/Kapit ... JV2004.pdf

If you like to see their collection of spoons, then please visit above mentioned link.

»Jaarverslag 2004 Kapiteinshuis Pekela/Stichting Westers«, p. 8-16.
(Annual Report 2004 of Captains House in Pekela / Westers Foundation« Author: Dr. A. Westers; p. 8-16).

Roughly translation of p. 8:

»Baltic Sea Spoons in the collection of the Captains House of Pekela [in Frisian Prov. Groningen, The Netherlands].«

In the middle of 18 century it became usual by many Sea Transport Company’s and Trade firms, who were active in the area of German and Russian harbours of the Baltic Sea — from Stettin [then Pomeranian, Germany] until St. Petersburg [Russia], to give to Captains, who became responsible for their sea freight, a spoon as present. Considering that the locally existing fleets in these harbours weren’t ever sufficient in transport capacity, for all from inland areas delivered products, like grain and wood; for to be transported to other European harbours, it was necessary to use additional capacities of other North European ships. The hundreds of cutter, brigs, and schooner of the Groninger peaty colonies were there necessary on the end of 18 century and during the whole 19 century for transport of these entire mercenary’s.

For to get close connections and relations, to tie these transporters, local ship-transport-broker (»Schiffsmäkler«), ship-accountants (»Schiffs-Abrechner«), ship-agents (»Schiffs-Agenten«), or transport loader’s (»Cargadoors«), gave as a present a spoon, made from a local silversmith [who most times made also the engravings in the conventual’s form, or most often by prick-engraving]. These Baltic Sea spoons are identified by the engraved [or pricked] name of the above mentioned; [not ever] combined by harbour town’s name, and year of gift; almost engraved [or pricked] on the backside of spoon’s handle.

Until yet doesn’t exist an totally cleared and reliable answer on the question of history: During which occasion was the spoon given? There are only a few occasions be reported. So reports a son of a trader from Danzig, who in 1852 his father’s busyness has taken over, that around that time period, old trade related customs were still common. Each incoming shipper got a glass of Madeira as welcome. When he made his farewell, before he leaved the harbour with his ship be freighted, then he has got a silver spoon of remembering or souvenir (cited from: Wolfgang Rudolph, “Das Schiff als Zeichen” [The Ship as Sign], Leipzig 1987, p. 133). A resident of Papenburg [Ostfrisian part of Germany, near the Dollart bay] wrote, that these spoons were exchanged, as a hand over of trust, from ship-owner to the captain as sign of agreed transport contract (cited from: “Festschrift zur Goldenen Hochzeit der Eheleute Theodor Brockmann und Frau Cathinka geb. Jongebloed zu Papenburg.” [Commemorative of Golden Wedding Anniversary of Married Couple Theodor Brockmann [[chunk man]] and his Wife Cathinka [[Catherine]] born Jongebloed [[young blood]]. Papenburg 1920, p. 81, cited in: “Papenburger Blätter” [[Papenburger Papers]], Heimat- und Verkehrsverein [[local heritage association]] Papenburg Nr. 5, 1/1984).

A resident of Marstal, on the Danish island Ærø, who had in his childhood the possibility to take part of these commercial travels, was told from his mother, that her father has got this kind of spoons hand-over on occasions, his ship was in Königsberg taking freight on board (cited from: Kaj Johansen, “Registrering af skipperskeer” [Register of shipper spoons] in “Marstal Søffartsmuseum Ã…rsberetning 1992” [Marstal Maritime Museum — Annual Report 1992]. This last cited report let’s take as conclusion, that the shipper’s [or captain’s] after some, in conformity with requirements of the load contractor’s [successful] journeys, then there fore has got presented a spoon.

Baltic Sea spoons existent in Captain’s houses, most times of some examples, in the Veenkolonie [e.g. in Pekela] were often used. These spoons have most times visible signs of wear and tear; the bowl’s of these spoons are worn, or a little bit frayed around the edges.

Also they were bound together with a red ribbon; and then after, for reason of representations, placed in a cabinet for linen, for to could show family’s wealthy ness. There be placed to their hymnal with silver mountings, and next to their other little boxes of silver.

Roughly translation of p. 15:

If not otherwise described, spoons [of this collection] have pointed tips of bowls, and handles as well.

“Cut steel” [cut handle] signification, is a from English silver influenced form; by facet’s formed decorative edges.

"lofje" = Drop, reinforcement under spoon’s bowl, in area of connection to the handle, where these two parts are mounted together.

Assay proof line, a zigzag line, result of removing by engraving a little amount of silver; witch the Assayer use to proof the fineness of silver from that spoon.

12 (Lot, or Loth), indication mark for the fineness of silver

My thanks are presented to Mrs. Barbara Tucholka-Wlodarska, scientific member of the »Muzeum Narodowe Gdansk«, in Gdansk [Poland], for identification of marks from master silversmiths of Danzig.

For the identification of marks from master silversmiths, of eastern harbour towns of the Baltic Sea area, it was used the guide of Dr. Annelore Leistikow, »Baltisches Silber« [Baltic Silver], Verlag Nordostdeutsches Kulturwerk [Publisher Work of North East German Culture], Lüneburg [Germany] 1996.

Photos by Jos Lange, Groningen: Nr. 6, 10-12, 17, 34, 42.

A. Westers [Author and Founder]

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Kind regards silverport
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silverport
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Transport circumstances and Types of Ships used in the Trade

Postby silverport » Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:32 pm

Hello all

Often it is very informative to know some thing around the background of preferred collectibles.

If you buy a nice »shipper spoon«, »kaflak lepel«, »Kapitänslöffel«, or »skipperskeer« … Hold in mind, that these were a special gift — also to animate the captain, remaining on deck, especially during horrible weather circumstances.

Below deck’s plank’s he had to transport save, goods of a huge economical, or socioeconomic value; e.g. grain for kings, and citizens daily bread — and he has got for trust in him, the spoon you’ve now in yours hands. That’s real history.

We maybe make cruises on Ocean liners — some of these “liners” were small; for to could sail also in area of shallow water, small harbour entrances, like Königsberg …

By kindly permission of http://vaartips.nl; a very engaged Dutch group of Marine oriented collectors and historians; it is now possible to show some historical prints of cutters, brigs, and schooner.

My thanks there fore go to this group and to their representatives Cees van der Rest and Pieter KleinDank U well!

"De geschiedenis van de zeevaart is een geschiedenis van menschelijk heldendom en martelaarschap, en de folterkamers, waarin zij, die de Goden van Ruimte en Tijd trotseerden, hun straffen moesten ondergaan, werden schepen genoemd".
[Hendrik Willem van Loon, 1934]

»The history of seafaring is a history of human heroism and martyrdom,
And the torture chamber, where they, who resisted the Gods of Space and Time,
Are punished, were baptized, “ships”«
.
Hendrik Willem van Loon, 1934.

Here now are following three pictures from three types of ships, mainly used: cutters, brigs, and schooner:

The Dutch »kof« type (cutter)

Image

Aquarel by Jacob Spin [1806-1875], »The schooner cutter “Monnikendam” and “Verwachting” in the estuary of Texel«.

The cutter’s original type was constructed for use near the coast, with a flat bottom and stabilizing “swords” on both sides. But from about 1735 on were cutter build, which draught was more considerable, and which could have a load from about 100 to 300 tons. These ships could sail also in shallow water, e.g. in mud flats. This sturdy constructed type of ships sailed by heavy seas more dip into the water.

These robust build ships sailed to Hanseatic League harbours, the Baltic Sea, and also to the Mediterranean Sea; cruises to South America are also reported.

The Dutch »brik« type (brig)

Image

Drawing of characteristic parts of brig ship type’s.

The brigs were first constructed in 17 century, to be a little, but very agile and speedy war ship. These main characteristics of agility and speed made it, to be ideal commercial trade transporters.

During second half of 19 century were these handsome brigs from Dutch shipping companies used for transports to West- and East Europe, but also to South America.

The Dutch »schoener« type (schooner)

Image

The three master schooner “Atlantic” at the start of the Transatlantic Race, on 17 May 1905.
Oilpainting by Anthony D. Blake [1905]


The schooner is rig lengthwise. Of American origin — first documented in The Netherlands on drawings from about 1620. Prototype for the North American Dutch colonist were a type of little ships, then be used in the Caribbean. First constructions happened in 1736; then they were named “schooner”, later "schoener". First constructions in The Netherlands happened about 1800.

This type of ships was becoming very attractive for the Dutch shipping companies; for reason of speedy transport possibilities of perishable commercial goods — and for reason of less sailors be needed.

Mijnheer Cees van der Rest, en Mijnheer Peter Klein, well heel hartelijk bedankt voor Uw heel informatieve web-site:
http://vaartips.nl

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Kind regards silverport
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silverport
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Background of the »Captains spoon's«

Postby silverport » Wed May 05, 2010 7:17 pm

Hello all

Here I like to show you artists and photographers impressions of the »Tyske Bryggen« = German Bridge (German quayside, or German wharf) in Bergen, Norway.

Image

The »Tyske Bryggen« = German Bridge (German quayside, or German wharf) in Bergen. Aquarell of Johan F. L. Dreier, 1817.

Bryggens Museum, Bergen 1996. Scan out of Ingvild Oye: Bergen und die deutsche Hanse. p. 38.


Source: Wikipedia »Bryggen«

A Photography from Bryggen, 50 year later.

Image

Bryggen in Bergen in the latter 19th century (1865). Photography of Knud Knudsen (*1832 in Odda, [Photographer in Bergen 1864-1915] +1915 in Bergen).

Source: Wikipedia »Bryggen«

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Kind regards silverport
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Theoderich
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Re: Captain spoons

Postby Theoderich » Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:22 pm

Wilfried Klingelhöfer is an Expert for Baltic-Captain-Spoons.
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Hose_dk
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Re: Captain spoons

Postby Hose_dk » Mon Jan 03, 2011 1:02 pm

Image
G Kittlig from pilau and maker Krihan from Königsberg. Spoon from 1838

Its time to update.

joho
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Re: Captain spoons

Postby joho » Sat Jan 08, 2011 8:25 am

I have a pair of large silver spoons we have been serving vegetables with for many years. Have just noticed prick dot engraving to each handle. One says HAGEN & Co. Pillau. The other is very difficult to read but could be "Rob. Kleyenstuber Sworn Skige Broker in Konigsborg" Maker appears to be Fournier. I presume thes are Captains spoons. John

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