Identifying a spoon's heel (drop)

Doos · Post by **Doos** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 10:49 am

Hi Tom and all,

That was a nice project.
When I studied silversmithing we indeed had to hammer down a cast block of silver to create a fork (same thing as a spoon). When I look into "OrfÃ¨vrerie joaillerie, EncyclopÃ©die Diderot et d'Alembert" by Diderot and D' Alembert, the tools used in the 18th century are basically what I am used to work with. Of course with the exception of electrical grinding and polishing machines.
For some jobs we still needed to use pumice and coal (f.i. if we needed something 100% flat like in mokume gane). Sometimes we needed to use steel/hematite burnishers to give it a polish or to smoothen out wrong engraving lines. In the old days the silversmith was probably not the guy having to do that, that was an apprentice job.

Things haven't changed much in silversmithing. Try to get a hold of the book, it has many pictures and some explanations of techniques but it is in French.

ISBN 2905388471
.

Post by **admin** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 12:45 pm

Doos,
Thanks, just tracked the Diderot down at Amazon.
.

Post by **dragonflywink** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 2:44 pm

Very nice, Tom! Henry Kauffman's The Colonial Silversmith illustrates the manufacture of various silver pieces, perhaps it's the book you were thinking of.

Cheryl ;o)
.

Post by **admin** » Fri Mar 23, 2007 3:02 pm

Hi Cheryl,
Didn't even know the book existed, sounds perfect and just found it for a buck on Amazon. Thanks for the info.

Regards, Tom
.

Post by **admin** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 5:55 pm

Hi,
Both the Diderot and Kauffman arrived today. Knew the Diderot was in French, but hoped the illustrations would tell us what we wanted to know. Was crushed to open this Elibron Classics edition and discover 544 pages of text completely without the illustrations, quel dommage! it will make a good doorstop until I learn the language.
On the other hand, Kauffman's "The Colonial Silversmith: His Techniques & Products" is a treasure trove.
Along with much else, the book does document the making of a rattail drop spoon with illustrations. It was done as a single piece construction with or without a die to form the bowl and rattail. The illustrated version was made without the die, the bowl and rattail roughly laid out in hammerwork and shaped in a soft lead depression.
The text went on to explain that the same bowl and drop were also made using a male and female die form. It named the source of this information as, of course, Diderot!
Thanks again to both Cheryl and Doos.
Regards, Tom

ps. not being able to leave well enough alone, I've reworked the finish, tip and proportions of the Spoon
.

Post by **dragonflywink** » Sat Mar 31, 2007 10:50 pm

Tom, your spoon is quite lovely fully finished. I'm imagining it showing up many years in the future at some antique store, as a rare 18th century copper spoon, unmarked, but obvously well-made.

Cheryl ;o)
.

Doos · Post by **Doos** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:44 am

Was crushed to open this Elibron Classics edition and discover 544 pages of text completely without the illustrations, quel dommage!

Hi Tom, my edition seems to be lacking in a lot of text then. Mostly all images with some text but certainly not 50 pages of text (let alone 500). Looks like there are many different versions around.
.

Post by **dognose** » Sun Apr 01, 2007 8:06 am

Hi Tom,
I have a massive version of Diderot, I'll fish it out of my loft and see if I can find the illustrations you need,
Regards Trev.
.

Post by **Granmaa** » Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:53 pm

I found the literature proving me wrong.

English Silver Spoons by Michael Snodin p.9

While very large spoons and spoons of novel type are sometimes made out of several pieces soldered together, the bowls and stems of English spoons, unlike many Continental examples, are almost always formed out of one piece of silver.

Miles
.

Post by **admin** » Fri Apr 13, 2007 3:51 pm

Hi All,
Apologies for the delay in response, real life has been interfering with web life in a big way lately.

Doos - of course I ordered the wrong book, assumed Tome 14 Diderot would be the same book regardless of publisher! live and learn

Cheryl - thanks for your kind comments, I don't think it will have to wait long to find its way into that antique shop. Amidst all the cigar smoke, it is getting a nice patina and should be ready for eBay within the month, appreciate your supplying its description.

Miles - glad something did the trick.

Trev - Many, many thanks for the offer, been intending to message you and beg for some scans. Got very lucky with a web search last night and we both get a reprieve. ->

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k9958v" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Link is thanks to the Bibliotheque Nationale de France. From here, anyone interested can print out or download "OrfÃ¨vrerie joaillerie, EncyclopÃ©die Diderot et d'Alembert" in its entirety, all text and engravings. Sometimes the internet is a joy to treasure hunt.

Found something else there I suspect is a little treasure ->

http://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k42381x" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Title: Projet de rÃ¨glement pour le commerce de l'orfÃ¨vrerie

circa 1790 seems to be a proposal to the Revolutionary Government to provide rules and regulations to the Silversmith/Goldsmith industry. No doubt an insane request, but if any of our French speaking forum members would care to translate its 38 pages, I'd love to publish an english version as an article on the website.

Best Regards, Tom

ps. the part about the spoon is a joke
.

Doos · Post by **Doos** » Sat Apr 14, 2007 5:57 am

Sometimes I can kick myself for not listening to my French teacher in highschool. This is one of those times. Nice find indeed.
.

asheland · Post by **asheland** » Mon Sep 19, 2016 11:58 am

Great thread indeed! :o)

www.925-1000.com

Identifying a spoon's heel (drop)

Re: Identifying a spoon's heel (drop)