Small spoon from Morozov

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Joerg
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Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Joerg » Sat Dec 01, 2018 2:51 pm

Hi
I got this little spoon together with some other Russian spoons. The spoon is assayed 1895 in St. Petersburg. I think assayer is Aleksandr Shevyakov (according to the reference in the Russian section). The maker's mark is overstamped by a Morozov mark with imperial court supplier eagle. Reading the forum posts on Morozov I doubt if all marks on my spoon are proper and authentic. The spoon itself is in mint condition, no wear, even the monogram looks like it was made recently. The finish of the spoon is good, properly made.
Can you enlighten me what I have? An item from 1895? Russia? Sold by Morozov?
Thank you, Jörg

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Goldstein
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Goldstein » Sat Dec 01, 2018 4:28 pm

Hi Joerg -

The assayer is correct.
your spoon is authentic - but the maker is overstruck by a fake Morozov mark. Morozov often used wares of suppliers (when they had his standard) - but never overstruck their marks. Here some original punches:

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Regards
Goldstein

Joerg
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Joerg » Sun Dec 02, 2018 5:05 pm

Hi Goldstein
thank you, this is in line with the many posts on Morozov in this forum. I still wonder what happened with my little spoon. The Morzov mark is fake, so added later. However, it does not leave any marking signs on the other side, on the monogram. And the spoon is curved, which appears being made after marking. I must conclude the spoon was reworked when the Morozov mark was added, and the monogram is from then. However, the monogram is excellent work. Al lot of work for beefing up an older spoon. I wonder who does that, spending all the effort for a small plain spoon. Are you sure the spoon is not a recent production from Asia but authentic Russian, 1895? This would be fantasic.
Kind regards, Jörg

AG2012
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby AG2012 » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:09 pm

Hi,
The spoon is authentic.
Another example of overlapping marks.
Not profitable to fake; Morozov single spoons can be bought in Russia for slightly over their bullion value.

Regards

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Goldstein
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Goldstein » Mon Dec 03, 2018 8:58 am

Hi AG2012 -

I dislike contradicting!

The shown punch
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does not exist - only fakers use it .
The authentic punch looks like that:
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It is the rarest punch from Morozov - I can not provide a photo.
I have shown different punches used by Morozov - they are all clear and crisp!
The from Jörg shown punch is later stamped on an original spoon - overstamping the original maker´s mark. Morozov never overstamped his suppliers marks - I can show hundreds of examples!

Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Goldstein » Mon Dec 03, 2018 9:22 am

Hi Jörg -
faking Russian silver is a big business! This does not happen in back rooms - but in state-of-the-art factories. These types of stamps are produced today with laser technology - it only takes seconds.

Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Goldstein » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:34 am

Hi -

even Wladimir Morozov did not overstamp his suppliers.....

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Regards
Goldstein

Goldstein
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Goldstein » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:42 am

Hi -

a quick search in the internet shows many of these "upgraded" Morozov fakes (authentic spoons, overstamped original maker)....

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Regards
Goldstein

Qrt.S
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Qrt.S » Wed Dec 05, 2018 2:36 pm

I agree with Goldstein. Something is wrong with the spoon's marks. The mark is a smudge. Morozov usually had his court supplier mark on the left or on the right side of the name. More seldom above the name like in this case. When the court supplier mark was above the name, it had no frame like Goldstein already showed. At least I have never seen such a genuine mark with a frame. The over-stamping is also a red flag. Yes, the spoon is most likely authentic but who made is another story, not Morozov, sorry.

Joerg
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Location: Switzerland

Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Joerg » Wed Dec 05, 2018 4:39 pm

All
thank you! Fake marks or not fake is a continuous source for a debate in the Russian section. Let us end this on the topic of my little spoon. All agree it is authentic, it is a nice little spoon and I have no intention on reselling or comercialize in any other way. It will stay with me for the years to come.
Thank you all for your contribution on this topic! Jörg

Adieu
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Adieu » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:19 am

How curious.

It DOES look like a typical Russian 19th-early 20th century "good silver" design, a couple mismatched pieces of which can be found passed down through generations in every other upper middle class cupboard in the former Soviet Union...

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )

What's the point of faking it in modern days anyway?

AG2012
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby AG2012 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:25 am

(admin edit - see Posting Requirements )


Either way, a single spoon by Morozov is worth just a fraction above its bullion value.
Regards

AG2012
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Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby AG2012 » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:31 am

But with faked lucrative punches, one can try to make every available piece of silver marketable.
On the other hand, punches cannot be used too many times, they deteriorate.

Adieu
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Joined: Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:11 am

Re: Small spoon from Morozov

Postby Adieu » Fri Dec 07, 2018 9:36 am

Maybe it's newish lower-grade silver sold as vintage antique Russian 84??

it does look suspiciously polished-but-dark though... lacks the heavy wear most 100-150yo articles have, but the color seems wrong for a mint condition unused article.

Compare with confimed real 1860's Russian 84-grade silver that's seen daily use and just had the tarnish cleaned off but not polished

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