Russian Egg holder?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
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cww1960
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Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Russian Egg holder?

Post by cww1960 »

Hello,

This is my first post. I'm a small time collector of russian silver, I have been offered the following item, supposedly by Maria Semenova.

I would like to get opinions on this item, I strongly think it's a fake for the following reasons.

1. The style of the enamel is completely wrong, the handle at the top looks added on and wrong style.

2. Maria's Hallmark was not used until after she took over he fathers factory in 1896?

3. Neither her or her fathers workshop were granted the use of the Imperial Warrant.

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Looking forward to comments
cww1960
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by cww1960 »

Sorry Images aren't working will work out why
cww1960
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Feb 08, 2019 9:25 pm
Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by cww1960 »

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Goldstein
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by Goldstein »

Hi cww1960 -
cww1960 wrote:I would like to get opinions on this item, I strongly think it's a fake for the following reasons.

1. The style of the enamel is completely wrong, the handle at the top looks added on and wrong style.

2. Maria's Hallmark was not used until after she took over he fathers factory in 1896?

3. Neither her or her fathers workshop were granted the use of the Imperial Warrant.
All 3 points are correct! An ugly and sensless fake!

Here the only objects from her I have - to compare style, quality and colours:

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Regards
Goldstein
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by Qrt.S »

For once we share the same opinion Goldstein, a poor fake that looks like a circus ad. I would like to add, that the colors are not those used by MC Hopefully you didn't bought it CWW1960? If you did, return it asap and demand refunding.
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by Qrt.S »

Ahh! Forgot to tell, that the hallmark is incorrect for the year 1891. I will not fall into more details than it should be a stub but it isn't. And the notches, the notches!!!
cww1960
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Location: Perth, Western Australia

Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by cww1960 »

Thank you for the comments, and glad to say I did not buy it, for the reasons mentioned above.

I have great suspicions on all Russian Silver unless from a reputable dealer, or by asking people with more knowledge than me.

Over the years I've been trying to find out if certain Silver Master used certain assayers, I see often some pieces for a master with always the same assayer master, does anyone know if there's any book's on this subject.

Qrt.s what do you mean by notches?
Aguest
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by Aguest »

I believe the term "notches" refers to the corners of each of the squares of the punches, which are suspicious and incorrect ::: I'm learning too ::::
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by Qrt.S »

The Russian hallmarking system is not so complicated but you need to understand it and its varieties from year to year. It is a mission impossible to explain it in details here. Start with reading this link: https://www.925-1000.com/Frussia.html In another link the same questions about books was asked. See here: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=52744

As to the notches. No Aguest, not the "cut" corners, they are rather "correct". However, before 1882 there were no notches on the fineness mark, but as from 1882 it got notches. The corners are always cut. See pictures below and compare:


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Note the years and look for the notches on the 84-mark on the mark to the right. Hint! Look up and down ;-))))
Also compare the right mark with the fineness mark on cww1960' s the egg holder. Look at the year! Actually there would be much more to tell about the fake mark, but I don't find it necessary to teach fakers. An good advice given on these sites many times is that "Learn how a genuine mark looks like in all details then you know what is a fake mark" There is only "one" official and genuine mark but countless fake marks and they are all different.

Got it?
cww1960
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by cww1960 »

Thank you Qrt.s, very informative, are there any books worth getting on assay marks, I have been trying to find out for example if certain silver masters used only one assay master or if they used multiple ones.

Additionally does any know if there is a definitive book, research paper on masters/workshops which were granted the Imperial Warrant
Qrt.S
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by Qrt.S »

@cww1960

Yes there are books but unfortunately the best books are in Russian language. You need need to know at least the basics in Russian in order to get something out of those books. But,yes, there are books mostly in English too, but they are all more or less poor copies of the Russian origins, like Postnikova, the Russian "bible" and, moreover, often badly translated with faults, misunderstandings etc.. Read the links I mentioned in my previous input. That is a good start. Ask what's unclear here.

There is a booklet поставщини высочайшето двора ("Suppliers of the supreme court") authors Skurlov and Ivanov 2002, but it is difficult indeed to find it.
cww1960
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Re: Russian Egg holder?

Post by cww1960 »

Luckily I have assistance reading Russian, and even more fortunate I did find a link to an online version of the book

https://culture.wikireading.ru/15742

Thanks you
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