Makers Marks Russian Frame

[chelsea98]

Hi,

can someone help me identify the maker of this photograph frame please? I believe it's St Petersburg and 1911 but I have no other info. thanks

album is here:

[oel]

Hi,
Embedded images get a far greater response than just posting link(s). We have requested you before to please embedded your images, for more information see:
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 82#p103282

Oel.

[chelsea98]

hi,
sorry, i tried to do it but screwed it up and then managed to double post the original. thanks for doing it for me I appreciate it.

[dognose]

Hi,

I cannot help with the Russian side of things, but the English importer is not without interest. Arthur Bowe established the London branch of Faberge in 1903, and worked with the firm until 1906. He started Noble & Co., along with William Crump around 1908 and was listed as the sole partner the following year.

The frame bears the London import marks for 1915.

Trev.

[Qrt.S]

Mind my asking but what makes you think it is from St Petersburg 1911? What caught my eye is that there seems to be a misspelling in the text inside the lid. To my understanding the correct spelling would be Руссое изделие (with an old abandoned E, Yat) i. e Russian product but there also is a Latin I second next from right. Irrespective of two Cyrillic letters ИВ (Latin IV) there are no Russian hallmarks on it.

[Qrt.S]

Sorry, not the lid. Where is the text?

[AG2012]

Hi,
Imported to London - letter ‘’q’’ should be for 1911 ? Fineness 88 zolotniks silver (916/1000),
Sponsor`s mark ``AB`` is consistent with Arthur Bowe mentioned by Trev.
Arthur Bowe, an employee of Faberge's Moscow branch established a permanent branch in London in 1903.
Carl Faberge's did not directly control the business, which was run by the Bowe family and registered as 'Bowe, Arthur Jeweller.'
In 1906 Carl Faberge's dissolved his partnership with the Bowes.
After the dissolution of the partnership Bowe continued to trade in Faberge and Russian works of art. In 1908 he established a business called Noble & Co. in the Pall Mall Safe Deposit, which in 1910 moved to Dewar House, Haymarket.
There are pros and cons in regard of the authenticity.
London import marks are not faked.On the other hand, there is only maker`s mark in Cyrillic ``И.В``. Lettering does look a bit odd, too, but letters printed on fabric are easily distorted.
All said I think the frame could belong to A. Bowe business, but it has NOTHING to do with Faberge if that was the point.
Regards

[dognose]

Aggh! Sorry for the typo! AG2012 is of course correct, it should read 1911.

Trev.

[agphile]

Regarding the spelling of Русское Изделие (Russian manufacture), the latin-like I in the penultimate letter of the second word is surely consistent with the pre 1917 Russian alphabet and not a reason to doubt the provenance.

I read the Russian marks as 88 as well as ИВ for the maker. I am not competent to say whether the 88 by itself is a proper Russian hallmark but the fineness of the silver would need to be in this region to qualify for a sterling import mark.

[agphile]

I meant to add a question as to whether there is a fuller set of Russian marks elsewhere on the main body of the item.

[oel]

Russian made for export, minimum 88 zolotnik/ 916 fineness or higher could qualify for sterling minimum 925

Peter.

[AG2012]

Hi,
The spelling is correct. This is the inscription on a 19th century samovar.

The marks are on the easel supporting the frame; the rest is alabaster, I suppose, and riveted applications (possibly gold).
Are there more Russian marks? Very unusual if none. That would mean A. Bowe simply collected merchandise from a workshop in Russia and left. After all, who is ``И.В`?
As well as selling pieces made in Russia, Faberge branch sold pieces supplied by English craftsmen (Bainbridge memoirs), These included hardstone animal studies by Alfred Pocock, silver made by Andrew Tysall of Poland Street, Soho and chased by Frank Luitger, designer Richard Pinks.
There are many items sold in Noble & Co, boxes apparently not marked in Russia.
The point is, both Faberge branch and A. Bowe had British suppliers and the trade was far from being immaculate.

[Goldstein]

Hi AG2012 -

Top recherche - as always!
Many thanks.

Goldstein

[AG2012]

Hello again,
Unfortunately the most important link is missing - who was ``И.В``?
Was he an unknown supplier to Faberge London branch (hardly possible) or did A. Bowe discover him after 1906 (dissolution from Faberge)?

How come many items were sold by Noble & Co``apparently unmarked``?
``An enameled silver and gold boxed picture frame, apparently unmarked, contained within original fitted leather Noble & Co case.``

[Qrt.S]

OK, the spelling is correct but not often seen. Anyway, the Russians didn't have any particular mark for export at that time. This exported frame lacks a hallmark, a crossed kokshnik looking right in this case. If an object was taken abroad the kokshnik was over stamped with an X and the "exporter" was refunded with half the assaying price. Why is there no hallmark on the frame? Nonetheless, I found a few ИВs in both Moscow and St Petersburg but none of them have a dot. Who is И.В? Again one of the unknown masters?

There are some unknown suppliers to Faberge, however, none of them with the initials И.В. Nothing tells us that this frame would have any connection with Fabergé. I believe we can skip that option.

[chelsea98]

wow, many thanks for all of your answers.

having seen a coupl, all i can say is that the quality of the frame is comparable to faberge. it has two colour gold and also has inset diamonds within the flowers and also with the leaves/arrows.

in reply to Qrt.S, in the listing at the auction the details were given as St petersburg and the date 1911.

in answer to agphile, i shall check it for other marks once I have it with me and report back.

just another point, the backing is actually agate.

thakns once again everyone, it really is appreciated!

[Goldstein]

Hi -
In my opinion, after the supply of Fabergé failed for known reasons, the company continued to do business with the successful enamel picture frames "from Russia".
None of the frames I have seen so far show any typical "Russian features" (design, enamel colours, pedestal etc) - they look more like the typical English frames of the time. Just compare the backsides!


Regards
Goldstein