Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

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DaveDeco
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Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

I would like to ask the Forum if the marks on this Russian Silver Salt are contemporary with a Faberge item of the period.The Kokoshnik mark appears to have the cyrillic initials of Ivan Lebedkin and the silversmith has either the Arabic initials MI or cyrillic initials for MG
[img]P1100660[/img]
[img]P1100659[/img]
oel
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by oel »

Hi welcome to the forum. Your images are not showing..Your question cannot be answered without the required images. The below should help you:

How to Add Images

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Embedded images get a far greater response than just posting links.

Remember to use the 'Preview' button before submitting your post.

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http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 82#p103282

Oel.
DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

Thank you for your assistance.I will try again


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oel
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by oel »

Could you show is an image of the complete salt cellar?
DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

Here is the Russian Silver Salt itself

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DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

And another photo

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DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

Here is another view of the marks

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AG2012
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by AG2012 »

Hi,
I think ``Faberge`` mark was struck over another maker`s mark.
The salt looks genuine Russian.
Regards
Qrt.S
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by Qrt.S »

I bit strange... would you mind tell us what are the Cyrillic two letters behind the neck in the hallmark. Another strange matter is that this M.I mark is over-punching the court supplier mark!? In addition, I cannot either find any known or to name unknown maker with the initials I.M working with Fabergé. There was only a designer/graphic artist Mihail Ivanoff/Ivanov, but no maker...it makes me wonder...Let's wait for other opinions.
Qrt.S
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by Qrt.S »

@AG2012
The other way, the M.I mark is struck over the court supplier mark. Yes it looks Russian, but the question is who made it?
DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

The cyrillic letters behind the head in the Kokoshnic mark are IL which I believe is Ivan Lebedkin.I have considered Michail Ivanov as the possible maker although the Cyrillic letters could be MG as they are a bit ambiguous
AG2012
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by AG2012 »

Qrt.S
The other way
Yes, you are right.Besides,Qrt.S is very familiar with all subcontractors recorded so far. It would be very unusual to have an unknown silversmith working for Faberge who had his mark struck over already assayed Faberge court supplier mark.Nonetheless, Faberge lettering does not look right and the court supplier mark looks rotated for 90 degrees (double headed eagle rotated to the right, barely recognizable contours, though).

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Qrt.S
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by Qrt.S »

OK, ИЛ stand for Ivan Lebedikin. Then vi are in Moscow. The problem with Mihail Ivanov is that he was not a gold/silversmith but a designer like Alma Phil. However, only gold-/silversmiths carry the right to have a personal mark nobody else. Also note that M.I could also be Latin letters (improbable), which makes it even more difficult. It isn't МГ. Very little information is known about Mihail Ivanon. He moved from St.Petersburg to Moscow around 1916. That again is in contradiction with the hallmark. I don't think it is him.
As i said in my previous input the M.I mark is an over struck. Objects made in Faberge's Moscow branch carry only the "K.FABERGE-mark" and not any makers' marks except for Wäkevä's, Rappoport's, Nevalainen's and artel ICA/1CA's mark. These objects were, anyway, made in St Petersburg for the Moscow market. Conclusion: Something is not in place...
Goldstein
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by Goldstein »

Hi -
design and engraving are not Russian! Oak leaves and acorns or oat haulms I never have seen on Russian salts!
Here some usual designs:
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Regards
Goldstein
DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

Here is another photo
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AG2012
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by AG2012 »

Hello again,
There are pros and cons in regard of authenticity. Kokoshnik looks OK, but again, ``Faberge`` mark does not. Then, unknown maker and unusual engraving, although the salt itself looks Russian.
All said and the question in the post - my humble opinion: this salt cannot be attributed to Faberge.
Regards
DaveDeco
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Re: Real or Fake Faberge Marks on Russian Silver Salt?

Post by DaveDeco »

Thank you all for your help with this query.It is much appreciated
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