Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
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- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:46 am
Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi.
I'm new to this forum, but thought I'd give this a shot.
I've inherited a silver set. It was allegedly given as payment to my great grandfather from Russian refugees who had worked for the imperial family.
The set consists of five pieces.
Some are made in St. Petersburg, some in Moscow, judging by the city marks.
They were assayed between 1894 and 1896.
The silversmith marks are hard to read, so I won't try to describe them.
The monogram is a stylized R with a five-pointed crown above it.
What I can't figure out is the silversmith (not the most important) and who the monogram signifies.
Any thoughts to what the set might have been used for would also be appreciated.
Can anyone help?
Image attaching seem to be malfunctioning (or user error), so I'll also post this link in case it doesn't work.
https://postimg.org/gallery/2krbygmdw/
I'm new to this forum, but thought I'd give this a shot.
I've inherited a silver set. It was allegedly given as payment to my great grandfather from Russian refugees who had worked for the imperial family.
The set consists of five pieces.
Some are made in St. Petersburg, some in Moscow, judging by the city marks.
They were assayed between 1894 and 1896.
The silversmith marks are hard to read, so I won't try to describe them.
The monogram is a stylized R with a five-pointed crown above it.
What I can't figure out is the silversmith (not the most important) and who the monogram signifies.
Any thoughts to what the set might have been used for would also be appreciated.
Can anyone help?
Image attaching seem to be malfunctioning (or user error), so I'll also post this link in case it doesn't work.
https://postimg.org/gallery/2krbygmdw/
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
Not Romanov, lower nobility crown (probably not even Russian).
Not very precise engraving.
No comment on marks.
Regards
Welcome to the forum.
Not Romanov, lower nobility crown (probably not even Russian).
Not very precise engraving.
No comment on marks.
Regards
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi fanitullen -
I post your pictures for a better understanding:
The makersmark: ITB (unknown), townmark: St. Petersburg, assay master: Scheriakov Aleksandr T., assay year: 1896, 84 (Zolotniki): silver content 875
This is just a nobility crown - without any title! Realy nothing to do with the Romanov in any way!
The Gothic letter "R" was not common in Russia - more in the Baltic states nearby with the German population!
The shown set consists from upside down:
cheeseknife
caviarspoon
sardines server
serving fork
pastry server
Pretty history, however, as so often in the years appropriately adorned. The facts tell something different!
Regards
Goldstein
I post your pictures for a better understanding:
The makersmark: ITB (unknown), townmark: St. Petersburg, assay master: Scheriakov Aleksandr T., assay year: 1896, 84 (Zolotniki): silver content 875
This is just a nobility crown - without any title! Realy nothing to do with the Romanov in any way!
The Gothic letter "R" was not common in Russia - more in the Baltic states nearby with the German population!
The shown set consists from upside down:
cheeseknife
caviarspoon
sardines server
serving fork
pastry server
Pretty history, however, as so often in the years appropriately adorned. The facts tell something different!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Yes, I share AG2012's and Goldstein's opinion. It is not A Russian engraving. As mentioned the Latin letter R doesn't exist in the Cyrillic alphabet. Moreover, I'd like to correct a minor typo. The assayers name is Schevjakov, Aleksandr Timofejevitch, active 1890-1896, possibly to 1913?
Nonetheless, I'd like to see the marks from Moscow, thank you.
Nonetheless, I'd like to see the marks from Moscow, thank you.
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- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:46 am
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi.
Late reply this, sorry about that.
Thank you for your help so far, no matter what the set actually is in terms of nobility and silversmith, it's interesting to get more knowledge about the set for it's own sake, seing as it's been in the family for near a hundred years now.
I'm in the middle of moving and changing jobs now, but I will post the rest of the pictures when I have the time.
Late reply this, sorry about that.
Thank you for your help so far, no matter what the set actually is in terms of nobility and silversmith, it's interesting to get more knowledge about the set for it's own sake, seing as it's been in the family for near a hundred years now.
I'm in the middle of moving and changing jobs now, but I will post the rest of the pictures when I have the time.
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- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:46 am
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi.
This took a while.
Posting the other pictures I have. I'll try to take some with a better zoom level during November sometime, hope these will be of use in the meantime.
Still unsure about the linking process for pictures, hopefully this will work.
As before, any pointers to who made these and who for is much appreciated :)
This took a while.
Posting the other pictures I have. I'll try to take some with a better zoom level during November sometime, hope these will be of use in the meantime.
Still unsure about the linking process for pictures, hopefully this will work.
As before, any pointers to who made these and who for is much appreciated :)
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi fanitullen -
silversmith: Koschelev, Pavel I. 1882-1896
assaymaster: Skovronsky, Aleksandr 1894-1908
Overall, an interesting, versatile and complete serving set. That it comes from different manufacturers is not a disadvantage. At that time, cutlery was bought over years - either because the demand has increased - or because you did not have the necessary money.
Regards
Goldstein
source: PL
silversmith: Koschelev, Pavel I. 1882-1896
assaymaster: Skovronsky, Aleksandr 1894-1908
Overall, an interesting, versatile and complete serving set. That it comes from different manufacturers is not a disadvantage. At that time, cutlery was bought over years - either because the demand has increased - or because you did not have the necessary money.
Regards
Goldstein
source: PL
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- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Aug 24, 2017 11:46 am
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Thank you, all answers are helpful :)
Concerning the other pictures, should I take new ones with more zoom so they're more legible?
Anyone know where I can go to try to find out who's monogram it is?
Concerning the other pictures, should I take new ones with more zoom so they're more legible?
Anyone know where I can go to try to find out who's monogram it is?
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi,
(In Germany, Weimar Constitution of 1919 transformed hereditary noble titles into dependent parts of the legal surname).
IMO it`s a waste of time.Even the highest nobility and royal ciphers are not easy to identify and let alone 1000s of lower nobility. Search for Edler - they all had five pearls in heraldic crown.Anyone know where I can go to try to find out who's monogram it is?
(In Germany, Weimar Constitution of 1919 transformed hereditary noble titles into dependent parts of the legal surname).
Re: Marks and monogram - Possible Romanov silver set
Hi fanitullen -
no more photos needed! We are accustomed to lousy photos....
I suggest buying a digital camera - you get them for little money today - the standard is high - all have a good macro programm. Even better mobiles can do it.
Regards
Goldstein
no more photos needed! We are accustomed to lousy photos....
I suggest buying a digital camera - you get them for little money today - the standard is high - all have a good macro programm. Even better mobiles can do it.
fanitullen wrote:Anyone know where I can go to try to find out who's monogram it is?
That is the starting point - go to work!fanitullen wrote:I've inherited a silver set. It was allegedly given as payment to my great grandfather from Russian refugees who had worked for the imperial family.
Regards
Goldstein