Silver smith id.
Silver smith id.
Hallo.Please identify silversmith hallmark.
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi,
Countless meaningless dents over the entire surface and also over marks (meaning done after assaying). What kind of decor is that ? Or meant to hide something ?
What`s the mark far left ?
Are monograms riveted ?
Countless meaningless dents over the entire surface and also over marks (meaning done after assaying). What kind of decor is that ? Or meant to hide something ?
What`s the mark far left ?
Are monograms riveted ?
Re: Silver smith id.
The marks from left:
A left faced knight in a hexagonal frame, is a current Polish gold mark for separate gold components introduced 1963. It should be struck with the standard gold mark, but the standard mark seems to be missing. It refers to the golden monograms on the case. Anyway, the case is remarked in Poland but its origin is in Russia. The second mark is a Polish silver hallmark as from 1963 and still in use as the first mark is too. It indicates a fineness of 875/1000 (2). Behind the neck there should be a letter indicating the assay office...Is there?
The third mark is the Russian maker's mark (НБ, Latin NB). That could be Nikolay Fyodorovitch Blomqvist, Nikolay Mihailovitch Bokov or Nikolay Bulatov, I cannot say which one. All active in Moscow around the turn of the century. The last mark is the Russian assay mark, valid 1899-1908. The assayer is (ИЛ) Ivan Lebedkin 1898-1914 in Moscow.
@AG2012
What dents, may I ask!? The engraving, however, is not of particularly high quality. And yes, a good question; "are the monograms riveted" or soldered. If the are soldered, they might have been added in Poland and that could explain better the Polish gold mark, but...?
A left faced knight in a hexagonal frame, is a current Polish gold mark for separate gold components introduced 1963. It should be struck with the standard gold mark, but the standard mark seems to be missing. It refers to the golden monograms on the case. Anyway, the case is remarked in Poland but its origin is in Russia. The second mark is a Polish silver hallmark as from 1963 and still in use as the first mark is too. It indicates a fineness of 875/1000 (2). Behind the neck there should be a letter indicating the assay office...Is there?
The third mark is the Russian maker's mark (НБ, Latin NB). That could be Nikolay Fyodorovitch Blomqvist, Nikolay Mihailovitch Bokov or Nikolay Bulatov, I cannot say which one. All active in Moscow around the turn of the century. The last mark is the Russian assay mark, valid 1899-1908. The assayer is (ИЛ) Ivan Lebedkin 1898-1914 in Moscow.
@AG2012
What dents, may I ask!? The engraving, however, is not of particularly high quality. And yes, a good question; "are the monograms riveted" or soldered. If the are soldered, they might have been added in Poland and that could explain better the Polish gold mark, but...?
Re: Silver smith id.
Have seen finely granulated interior surface but nothing like this.Even overlapping marks.
Re: Silver smith id.
OK, thanks, I misunderstood...
Re: Silver smith id.
Thanks. Polish silver hallmark are confirmation of the Russian hallmark and the gold sign refers to initials on cigarette case.Should there be a Russian gold hallmark for initials?
I was looking for a Russian silversmith and I will learn more from you:)
Click on the image for better quality!
I was looking for a Russian silversmith and I will learn more from you:)
Click on the image for better quality!
Re: Silver smith id.
welcome again. With zoom shows that the entire surface from the inside and outside has "holes".
Is it a silversmith technique?:-/
Click on the image for better qualitty
Is it a silversmith technique?:-/
Click on the image for better qualitty
Re: Silver smith id.
Good morning for the third time.
I ask you a sentence because I intend to buy this cigarette case and I do not know what are these traces on the surface that I asked earlier
I ask you a sentence because I intend to buy this cigarette case and I do not know what are these traces on the surface that I asked earlier
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi madej -
I do not know after what criteria you collect Russian silver. Cheap, ugly, damaged, nonames, artistically and crafty worthless or outstanding quality, stylish, immaculate and made by well-known/famous manufacturers or artists.
Decide what you like more - and buy that. One perfect object is better than 5 dented and/or scratched objects!
Regards
Goldstein
I do not know after what criteria you collect Russian silver. Cheap, ugly, damaged, nonames, artistically and crafty worthless or outstanding quality, stylish, immaculate and made by well-known/famous manufacturers or artists.
Decide what you like more - and buy that. One perfect object is better than 5 dented and/or scratched objects!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi Goldstein
Thanks for the reply.
Notice that it is better to have something better than worse, but not always money to allow it. Specifically, on the example of this cigarette csse .I say that I like it and I can buy it for a small money.I would like to know where the "holes" came from all over the surface because I do not believe that they are the result of the destruction of the object.I believe in your opinion
Thanks for the reply.
Notice that it is better to have something better than worse, but not always money to allow it. Specifically, on the example of this cigarette csse .I say that I like it and I can buy it for a small money.I would like to know where the "holes" came from all over the surface because I do not believe that they are the result of the destruction of the object.I believe in your opinion
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi madej -
Perhaps I have not expressed myself clearly enough: there were manufacturers who had used inferior materials for cost reasons and worked with cheap engravers. As you may know, there have always been expensive and cheap products. The difference is in the quality. If you use the money that you spend for lets say 4 cheap objects over the time for just one decent object - you are on the right way! Think about that or speak with collectors how they do it!
Regards
Goldstein
Perhaps I have not expressed myself clearly enough: there were manufacturers who had used inferior materials for cost reasons and worked with cheap engravers. As you may know, there have always been expensive and cheap products. The difference is in the quality. If you use the money that you spend for lets say 4 cheap objects over the time for just one decent object - you are on the right way! Think about that or speak with collectors how they do it!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi Goldstein
Thanks, I understand everything.So let's to concetrate on my question about the cause of the "hole" on the entire surface of the cigarette, do you think it is a defect caused by the damage?
Thanks, I understand everything.So let's to concetrate on my question about the cause of the "hole" on the entire surface of the cigarette, do you think it is a defect caused by the damage?
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi madej -
OK - you are very persistent - here comes the truth:
the shown cigarette case is one of the cheapest and most simple designs - made of substandard material (the reason for the "pox scars"). One can speak of a "not typical Russian design"! The engraving is uncouth and not very professional - the two hunters and the dog look more like a cartoon! (looks more like a disput who shot the dog....)
The golden initials were added later (you could buy them from jewellers in thousand different forms and styles) - they are of a different quality.
The maker is more or less unknown - in over 40 years I never have seen his mark in real or in the main literature!
I enclose some photos of simple cigarette cases in the style of your case. Have a look at the details, form, quality and engravings - and compare!
Regards
Goldstein
OK - you are very persistent - here comes the truth:
the shown cigarette case is one of the cheapest and most simple designs - made of substandard material (the reason for the "pox scars"). One can speak of a "not typical Russian design"! The engraving is uncouth and not very professional - the two hunters and the dog look more like a cartoon! (looks more like a disput who shot the dog....)
The golden initials were added later (you could buy them from jewellers in thousand different forms and styles) - they are of a different quality.
The maker is more or less unknown - in over 40 years I never have seen his mark in real or in the main literature!
I enclose some photos of simple cigarette cases in the style of your case. Have a look at the details, form, quality and engravings - and compare!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi Goldstein
Thanks,i like detailed answers.
Regards
Thanks,i like detailed answers.
Regards
Re: Silver smith id.
Welcome again.
Because the problem with the cigarette was not good enough for me today, I went to an auction house expert, a silver specialist. The answer was that the above structure of silver I was asking for was from hammer crunching in the sheet during production and from the low quality gold that was a gold cigarette case. (by gold fire method?) What do you think about this Goldstein and everyone?
Below pictures of similar cases.
Because the problem with the cigarette was not good enough for me today, I went to an auction house expert, a silver specialist. The answer was that the above structure of silver I was asking for was from hammer crunching in the sheet during production and from the low quality gold that was a gold cigarette case. (by gold fire method?) What do you think about this Goldstein and everyone?
Below pictures of similar cases.
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi madej -
Now we are approaching the open-ended quality scale more and more! Cigarette cases from the Polish firm KiM (Wladyslaw Krupski & Jan Matulewicz 1909-1944) are the bottom line. Your "auction house expert" seemingly does not know that most of the cigarette case designs are industrially produced!
No "hammer crunching"! Gildings are usually carried out galvanically (electroplated). The industrial age had already begun a long time ago.
Without going too close to you, I recommend you first read the relevant literature - so you know what you're talking about. The Internet also offers many opportunities for further education!
With the necessary basic knowledge you can then participate in specialized fora like 925-1000.com and also understand what the numerous experts tell you.
All the best
Goldstein
Now we are approaching the open-ended quality scale more and more! Cigarette cases from the Polish firm KiM (Wladyslaw Krupski & Jan Matulewicz 1909-1944) are the bottom line. Your "auction house expert" seemingly does not know that most of the cigarette case designs are industrially produced!
No "hammer crunching"! Gildings are usually carried out galvanically (electroplated). The industrial age had already begun a long time ago.
Without going too close to you, I recommend you first read the relevant literature - so you know what you're talking about. The Internet also offers many opportunities for further education!
With the necessary basic knowledge you can then participate in specialized fora like 925-1000.com and also understand what the numerous experts tell you.
All the best
Goldstein
Re: Silver smith id.
Hallo everyone .
Hi Goldstein
Is it something bad that I ask many people to take silver for their opinion? Everyone brings something to my question, and everyone can be wrong. What do you say is that the cigarette case was sanded to have satin, matte finish and hence the holes all over the surface.
Regards
Hi Goldstein
Is it something bad that I ask many people to take silver for their opinion? Everyone brings something to my question, and everyone can be wrong. What do you say is that the cigarette case was sanded to have satin, matte finish and hence the holes all over the surface.
Regards
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi madej-
If you have to ask other people to know what to think, then you are basically wrong.
Basic knowledge is the essence of every collector or interested person. Without an own sound opinion, all efforts will be fruitless!
Get the relevant specialist literature, read the forum and visit online auctions worldwide. Start slowly but persistently - then you get access to the fascinating world of silver - with all its apparent secrets.
All the best
Goldstein
If you have to ask other people to know what to think, then you are basically wrong.
Basic knowledge is the essence of every collector or interested person. Without an own sound opinion, all efforts will be fruitless!
Get the relevant specialist literature, read the forum and visit online auctions worldwide. Start slowly but persistently - then you get access to the fascinating world of silver - with all its apparent secrets.
All the best
Goldstein
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi eweryone
Hi Goldstein
It seems to me that one of the factors of learning is asking questions.
So I will ask again because I did not get the answer to the question from the previous post. What do you think about the statement that the cigarette case has such a surface structure because it has been sanded to have a matt satin surface
Regards
Hi Goldstein
It seems to me that one of the factors of learning is asking questions.
So I will ask again because I did not get the answer to the question from the previous post. What do you think about the statement that the cigarette case has such a surface structure because it has been sanded to have a matt satin surface
Regards
Re: Silver smith id.
Hi madej -
all you questions are already answered! Go back and read again what was written. We spoke about different qualities - low-middle-high.
If various operations of the surface treatment (inside and outside) are skipped for cost reasons or lack of professionalism one speaks of inferior goods. High-quality goods require considerably more labor (machine input) - so they have to become more expensive. The customer can choose between different qualities and prices.
The cigarette case you have shown is cheap and coarse - a simple, cheap piece - for the collector without value!
I hope you understand now.
Regards
Goldstein
all you questions are already answered! Go back and read again what was written. We spoke about different qualities - low-middle-high.
If various operations of the surface treatment (inside and outside) are skipped for cost reasons or lack of professionalism one speaks of inferior goods. High-quality goods require considerably more labor (machine input) - so they have to become more expensive. The customer can choose between different qualities and prices.
The cigarette case you have shown is cheap and coarse - a simple, cheap piece - for the collector without value!
I hope you understand now.
Regards
Goldstein