Please click on the image for better quality.
What is a silversmith?
Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hello. How do you think it is "sunshine" or what else can be a specific symbol or the owner's imagination?
Please click on the image for better quality.
What is a silversmith?
Please click on the image for better quality.
What is a silversmith?
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi madej -
www.925-1000.com is a wellknown respected and highly valued forum from and for serious people!
For hallmarks, database and silver research.
It is no place for junk and trash or stuff for the melter.
Regards
Goldstein
www.925-1000.com is a wellknown respected and highly valued forum from and for serious people!
For hallmarks, database and silver research.
It is no place for junk and trash or stuff for the melter.
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hallo Goldstein.
I regard arrogant your response.
I asked questions in relation to the silver object on the forum about silver. The fact that you think for nothing not a worth piece of rubbish is marking this object that and I about it think so. I am congratulating you on wonderful expensive objects, but consider that there are also people which have less money and weaker objects from which possessions still are pleased
Regards
I regard arrogant your response.
I asked questions in relation to the silver object on the forum about silver. The fact that you think for nothing not a worth piece of rubbish is marking this object that and I about it think so. I am congratulating you on wonderful expensive objects, but consider that there are also people which have less money and weaker objects from which possessions still are pleased
Regards
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi madej -
First of all, my intention is not to offend you!
I would just point out that this forum has a certain quality claim - that is, the posted objects should be no fakes or scrap. Not all silver with Russian stamps is collectable or of particular interest - especially when it is totally scratched, nonsensically altered, dented, fakes or neglected for decades. It is up to you to make a corresponding selection. If you like silver of this kind - OK - but the forum participants have totally different performances what regards quality!
Even if you have little money, you can find interesting pieces. They are out there - you only have to find them! You have to replace money with knowledge and intelligence and open your eyes! Learn, learn and again learn!
If you spend the money you spend on 3 bad and ugly parts for 1 decent part - then you already have the start for a reasonable collection.
If you have no idea, do not want to learn and have no money - then you have 3 big problems that only you can solve.
I would like to offer you my help and decades of experience (free of charge!!) -
but you have to contribute your part!
Regards
Goldstein
First of all, my intention is not to offend you!
I would just point out that this forum has a certain quality claim - that is, the posted objects should be no fakes or scrap. Not all silver with Russian stamps is collectable or of particular interest - especially when it is totally scratched, nonsensically altered, dented, fakes or neglected for decades. It is up to you to make a corresponding selection. If you like silver of this kind - OK - but the forum participants have totally different performances what regards quality!
Even if you have little money, you can find interesting pieces. They are out there - you only have to find them! You have to replace money with knowledge and intelligence and open your eyes! Learn, learn and again learn!
If you spend the money you spend on 3 bad and ugly parts for 1 decent part - then you already have the start for a reasonable collection.
If you have no idea, do not want to learn and have no money - then you have 3 big problems that only you can solve.
I would like to offer you my help and decades of experience (free of charge!!) -
but you have to contribute your part!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi Goldstein
The object that I ask does not belong to me and I only made him a photo on the fleamarket yesterday. I was interested in whether someone met with forum members with such "sunshine" or just an idea of the owner as I think.
I agree with you that it is better to have one thing better than 3 worse, but it is an individual choice and you can not impose your opinion on anyone, at best politely suggest it. The forum is promoting knowledge in the field of signatures, dating, silversmith, product itself and So far, but I think that not only this perfect object, especially that on the forum only some people go to get any information about the object. In conclusion, I mean that I asked about something else and you in response to my question you write about that forum is not to post on it about how you found such rubbish.I will once again say that what for one is rubbish for another It is not .Because I want to always know as much about something that interests me, and if someone has a desire to answer me or not.
I sincerely congratulate you on your knowledge, but remember the words of William Shakespeare
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
Thanks for offering help(for Free)
Regards
The object that I ask does not belong to me and I only made him a photo on the fleamarket yesterday. I was interested in whether someone met with forum members with such "sunshine" or just an idea of the owner as I think.
I agree with you that it is better to have one thing better than 3 worse, but it is an individual choice and you can not impose your opinion on anyone, at best politely suggest it. The forum is promoting knowledge in the field of signatures, dating, silversmith, product itself and So far, but I think that not only this perfect object, especially that on the forum only some people go to get any information about the object. In conclusion, I mean that I asked about something else and you in response to my question you write about that forum is not to post on it about how you found such rubbish.I will once again say that what for one is rubbish for another It is not .Because I want to always know as much about something that interests me, and if someone has a desire to answer me or not.
I sincerely congratulate you on your knowledge, but remember the words of William Shakespeare
"The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself to be a fool."
Thanks for offering help(for Free)
Regards
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi.
I think, sun is the later addition. The main drawing - the nielo technology.
I can't define the producer - I don't see a letters in the maker mark. One of anybody....
Best Reg..
I think, sun is the later addition. The main drawing - the nielo technology.
I can't define the producer - I don't see a letters in the maker mark. One of anybody....
Best Reg..
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Maybe it's a moon?
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
@Goldstein,
Please don't make hasty conclusions and make unnecessary remarks like you tend to do. Remember that "One man's junk is another man's treasure". It is true that the case is badly kept, worn, damaged and not an especially collectible item. However, it carries information in its marks. There is a lot of unknown information hidden in what you would call "junk" and worth to investigate before making any judgments. In this case Dad stated that he is unable to read the maker's mark, neither can I. It would be interesting to know what are the maker's mark's initials, who is he? In addition, the year mark can help to define an assayer's working period. Postnikova defined the periods mostly from items in museums. They are not always correct. On these sites it has been proved many times. Recently Ubaranda clarified some assayers' periods in Vitebsk and Mogilev from address books. This is how researching is done but not by blaming something to be "trash".
I do collect unknown marks and sometimes I manage to match such a mark to a name. Doing this I slowly create a better and more complete list of imperial Russian goldsmiths and assayers with their working period and location. As you very well know the list still rather incomplete full of "Unknown maker" notes. Let's try to find those makers from not only "treasures" but also less valuable objects before you throw it in the waste basket.
@madej
What are the initials, please show some better close ups, thank you.
Please don't make hasty conclusions and make unnecessary remarks like you tend to do. Remember that "One man's junk is another man's treasure". It is true that the case is badly kept, worn, damaged and not an especially collectible item. However, it carries information in its marks. There is a lot of unknown information hidden in what you would call "junk" and worth to investigate before making any judgments. In this case Dad stated that he is unable to read the maker's mark, neither can I. It would be interesting to know what are the maker's mark's initials, who is he? In addition, the year mark can help to define an assayer's working period. Postnikova defined the periods mostly from items in museums. They are not always correct. On these sites it has been proved many times. Recently Ubaranda clarified some assayers' periods in Vitebsk and Mogilev from address books. This is how researching is done but not by blaming something to be "trash".
I do collect unknown marks and sometimes I manage to match such a mark to a name. Doing this I slowly create a better and more complete list of imperial Russian goldsmiths and assayers with their working period and location. As you very well know the list still rather incomplete full of "Unknown maker" notes. Let's try to find those makers from not only "treasures" but also less valuable objects before you throw it in the waste basket.
@madej
What are the initials, please show some better close ups, thank you.
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi, if you click on the images they will enhange. The assayer B.C, Moscow 1874. The maker's mark could be P.P
Peter
Peter
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Qrt.S ,Dad
Unfortunately I can not now make better pictures of the hallmarks but next time I will be on the flea market I will do it.
Regards
Unfortunately I can not now make better pictures of the hallmarks but next time I will be on the flea market I will do it.
Regards
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
oel
It does not look like PP, but maybe
Regards
It does not look like PP, but maybe
Regards
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi Madej,
Your images are great, only the maker's mark is a little unclear. Let us wait for other contributors to react.
Best,
Peter
Your images are great, only the maker's mark is a little unclear. Let us wait for other contributors to react.
Best,
Peter
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
P.P in Cyrillic (R.R.)
Not in PL
Not in PL
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi Qrt.S-
In other words: you know as good as nothing in spite of a lot of hidden informations which you obviously can not analyse.
Here a little jumper: Assaymaster BC Viktor Savinsky 1859-1894, Townmark Moscow....
Now show some other examples from the same maker to compare etc., etc.
Start with your investigation. My curiosity knows no limits!
Regards
Goldstein
Really?Qrt.S wrote:There is a lot of unknown information hidden in what you would call "junk" and worth to investigate before making any judgments. In this case Dad stated that he is unable to read the maker's mark, neither can I. It would be interesting to know what are the maker's mark's initials, who is he? In addition, the year mark can help to define an assayer's working period.
In other words: you know as good as nothing in spite of a lot of hidden informations which you obviously can not analyse.
Here a little jumper: Assaymaster BC Viktor Savinsky 1859-1894, Townmark Moscow....
Now show some other examples from the same maker to compare etc., etc.
Start with your investigation. My curiosity knows no limits!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
No, it doesn't and neither does your arrogance. Nonetheless, what makes you draw the conclusion with certainty that the assayer is Viktor but not his brother senior assayer Veniamin Savinsky or maybe even Vladimir Smirnov? The year is 1874. All three assayed in Moscow that year.Goldstein wrote: Here a little jumper: Assaymaster BC Viktor Savinsky 1859-1894, Townmark Moscow....
My curiosity knows no limits!
Regards
Goldstein
In addition, you have absolutely no idea whatsoever of how much I know or don't know.
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi -
Do not dodge as always - stay on topic - and try to explain the open questions plausible! With your ostensible immense theoretical knowledge this should not be a problem. The whole world wants to know what you mean with your blurred and non-saying answers! Just become concrete - and not polemical!
Regards
Goldstein
Do not dodge as always - stay on topic - and try to explain the open questions plausible! With your ostensible immense theoretical knowledge this should not be a problem. The whole world wants to know what you mean with your blurred and non-saying answers! Just become concrete - and not polemical!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
@Goldstein,
Do not reply with a question before answering my question; how do you know with certainty that the assayer is Viktor and not Veniamin or possibly even Vladimir Smirnov. All assayed in 1874?
Do not reply with a question before answering my question; how do you know with certainty that the assayer is Viktor and not Veniamin or possibly even Vladimir Smirnov. All assayed in 1874?
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi -
I am firmly convinced that you will tell us in a long sermon about who it could not have been - who could have been it if you knew exactly who it was. And then you will reveal the real name to the whole bewidered world - or not. I do not care!
Regards
Goldstein
I am firmly convinced that you will tell us in a long sermon about who it could not have been - who could have been it if you knew exactly who it was. And then you will reveal the real name to the whole bewidered world - or not. I do not care!
Regards
Goldstein
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
I must disappoint you because unfortunately I don't know for sure who it is of those three and neither do you, so I advise you not to present names that you "think" it might be as the absolute and only truth. The readers should not be mislead. Not the first time you have done it and if you don't care, just be quiet.
Re: Cigarette case ,specific symbol or something else ?
Hi -
After you have saved (copy and paste) all the articles that have been published for years, here and elswhere, you can tell us exactly how often Viktor Savinsky, Veniamin Savinsky or Vladimir Smirnov have been named as assay masters. I tend to Viktor Savinsy - as well as the majority of the experts.
Now let us please know your expert´s assessment and try to avoid further insults!
Regards
Goldstein
After you have saved (copy and paste) all the articles that have been published for years, here and elswhere, you can tell us exactly how often Viktor Savinsky, Veniamin Savinsky or Vladimir Smirnov have been named as assay masters. I tend to Viktor Savinsy - as well as the majority of the experts.
Now let us please know your expert´s assessment and try to avoid further insults!
Regards
Goldstein