Unknown Hallmarks

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
muffingee
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 pm

Unknown Hallmarks

Postby muffingee » Thu Nov 08, 2018 2:58 pm

Hello,
I'm a newbie and hoping someone will recognize the hallmarks/stamps on this item or even what it is. I think its a sporran cantle however it has a double opening. If it is a sporran cantle I have never seen a double closure.

Image
https://i.postimg.cc/nzrfZXDP/img-20181107-154024.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/nzrfZXDP/img-20181107-145726.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/nzrfZXDP/img-20181108-084516.jpg

Thanks,

muffingee
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: Unknown Hallmarks

Postby muffingee » Thu Nov 08, 2018 3:15 pm

muffingee wrote:Hello,
I'm a newbie and hoping someone will recognize the hallmarks/stamps on this item or even what it is. I think its a sporran cantle however it has a double opening. If it is a sporran cantle I have never seen a double closure.

Image
Image
Image
Image

Thanks,

oel
co-admin
Posts: 3449
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Unknown Hallmarks

Postby oel » Thu Nov 08, 2018 4:00 pm

Hi, welcome to the forum.I believe it to be a 18th/early 19th century Dutch silver purse frame with two brackets for extra compartments. Including a silver belt hook.

Image
Silver double purse frame with silver belt hook.
Image
Silver double frame with clasp for sewing double bag purse.
Image
The town mark could be a castle tower together with a year letter C for the city of Middelburg, in the Dutch province of Zeeland. The makers mark is not clear but it is known. It could read PD under a flower for: Paulus d'Hont, registered in Middelburg around 1803-1811. The year letter C used 1802-1803. Unfortunately at the moment until 21st of this month no access to my library. Question: are there any marks on the belt hook?
Image
The crowned O is a later duty mark for 1807.
For Dutch (hall) marks and town marks see:
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028
For Middelburg see:
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 29#p160029



Peter

muffingee
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: Unknown Hallmarks

Postby muffingee » Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:08 pm

Hello Peter and thank you so much for the time, effort and research you put into helping me identify this piece!
To answer your question regarding marks/stamps on the belt hook, all three stamps are on it as well. I am assuming the silver content would be 889/1000? It weighs 210 grams.

Thanks again,
Tim

oel
co-admin
Posts: 3449
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Unknown Hallmarks

Postby oel » Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:28 pm

Hi Tim,
Will countercheck and confirm next week when I am home including the maker's mark.

Peter.

oel
co-admin
Posts: 3449
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Unknown Hallmarks

Postby oel » Tue Nov 20, 2018 12:36 pm

Hi Tim, here we go.

Yes I can confirm the maker's mark being for Paulus D'Hont, born around 1774 and became master in 1803.

Middelburg between 1636 and 1785 used three standards. Het Grote Keur or First Standard; 10 penningen and 18 grein, and Kleine Keur or Small Standard often called 2nd standard; 10 penningen 16 grein. In 1696 a third Nieuwe Keur or New Standard introduced; 11 penningen 8 grein.
In 1785 Middelburg lowerd the three standards. Nieuwe Keur or New Standard; 11 penningen and 2 grein. Grote Keur or First Standard 10 penningen and 12 grein. Kleine Keur or Small Standard 9 penningen 12 grein. The reason why Middelburg lowered the fineness of the standards was due to the price of silver, shortage and high demand for silver and gold coins to pay for the Fourth Anglo Dutch War (1780–1784) which proved a disaster for the Netherlands, particularly economically.

For the mathematics
1 penning = 83,333/1000
1 grein = 3,4722/1000

Back to your purse frame being Kleine Keur or Small Standard after 1785 equals 9 penningen (9x 83,333= 749,997) and 12 grein (12x3,4722=41,666) together 41,666+749,997=791,66/1000 fineness.

Source; Zeeuws zilver J. de Bree Schiedam 1978

Peter.

muffingee
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Nov 07, 2018 5:58 pm

Re: Unknown Hallmarks

Postby muffingee » Thu Dec 06, 2018 3:19 pm

oel wrote:Hi Tim, here we go.

Yes I can confirm the maker's mark being for Paulus D'Hont, born around 1774 and became master in 1803.

Middelburg between 1636 and 1785 used three standards. Het Grote Keur or First Standard; 10 penningen and 18 grein, and Kleine Keur or Small Standard often called 2nd standard; 10 penningen 16 grein. In 1696 a third Nieuwe Keur or New Standard introduced; 11 penningen 8 grein.
In 1785 Middelburg lowerd the three standards. Nieuwe Keur or New Standard; 11 penningen and 2 grein. Grote Keur or First Standard 10 penningen and 12 grein. Kleine Keur or Small Standard 9 penningen 12 grein. The reason why Middelburg lowered the fineness of the standards was due to the price of silver, shortage and high demand for silver and gold coins to pay for the Fourth Anglo Dutch War (1780–1784) which proved a disaster for the Netherlands, particularly economically.

For the mathematics
1 penning = 83,333/1000
1 grein = 3,4722/1000

Back to your purse frame being Kleine Keur or Small Standard after 1785 equals 9 penningen (9x 83,333= 749,997) and 12 grein (12x3,4722=41,666) together 41,666+749,997=791,66/1000 fineness.

Source; Zeeuws zilver J. de Bree Schiedam 1978

Peter.

Thank you ever so much for the hard work you put into helping me identify this purse. How fascinating. I never would have guessed. It was sold as a "scottish sporran" frame but I was confused since it had 2 closures. Mystery solved!! I bought it without my wife's knowledge but now she knows :/ I think she is excited and would like to restore it....an I am healthy and still alive. ;) we now and have a interesting conversation starter to share with our fellow vacationers in Curacao, our favorite holiday island!!!


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