Purse with Silver Handle

GAM · Post by **GAM** » Fri Dec 16, 2005 10:14 pm

Hello, I have a black purse with a silver handle. The purse looks very similar to another purse that is listed in the dutch silver forum. I have tried researching the silver marks but I can't confirm the identity. There are 4 silver marks inside the purse. One looks to be the standard mark with the lion facing to the right with the number 2 underneath. The other mark looks to be N2. There is another mark that looks like a K or an H? The fourth mark I can't really identify. Any information on these marks would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

http://www2.filehost.to/files/2005-12-1 ... urse_1.JPG" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www2.filehost.to/files/2005-12-1 ... Mark_1.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(you'll have to resize the first two images to show them on the board, think you broke the record with the 26 inch pic _ Admin)
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GAM · Post by **GAM** » Sat Dec 17, 2005 4:43 pm

A couple of my original images were too large so I am reposting those images below. One is of the H or K silver mark and the other is of the silver clasp. The larger image of the purse can be viewed by clicking on the link at the top of the post.

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Doos · Post by **Doos** » Wed Dec 21, 2005 9:21 am

Hi GAM,

The pursemount is indeed Dutch.

The gothic W is for the year 1906. The lion is for 833/000 silver.
The H is a pseudo mark (no. 145, Valse Zilvermerken in Nederland - K.A. Citroen).

I have never seen this n2 mark before, but my guess is that it is stamped on a piece that is detachable (like the inside silver thingy).. in which case it's a 833/000 mark for the city of Maastricht for loose parts, stamped after 1931. Which is odd, because the essay office in Maastricht closed in 1926.
I'll investigate that.

The pursemount itself is probably made in Groningen.
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GAM · Post by **GAM** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 5:50 pm

Doos,

Thank you so much for the information. You are exactly right that the N2 mark is stamped on the "inside silver thingy" that separates the two inside pockets of the purse. Besides the N2 mark, the silver thingy also has the gothic w stamped on it. The standard mark and the pseudo H mark are both stamped on the inside of the main pursemount.

I am a novice at silver marks and I am not sure that I entirely understand the meaning of a "pseudo" mark. Were pseudo marks done to deceive buyers on the background or maker of the piece? Is it bad news to find that your piece has a pseudo mark?

Thank you again for taking the time to research my piece and provide me with this information.
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Doos · Post by **Doos** » Thu Dec 22, 2005 6:11 pm

GAM,

Hallmarking has been done since about the 14th century in Europe as a consumer protection service under strict regulations.
Around the late 1800's some people noticed the correlation between those marks and dating the pieces. That led to publications and a collection frency (sp?) of old silver pieces.

During the 1800's and prior, the guilds ruled the production of pieces and heirs took over the moulds etc.

As those older pieces soon started to be highly valued, some people started to copy the old hallmarks to mimic them. Those fraudulant marks are named "pseudo marks" and most of them are from the the late 1800's- early 1900's.

Some old moulds were copied aswell (or inherited).

So they are really fake marks on copies of older pieces. Some people collect them now aswell.

In short: some of the Victorians tried to sell new pieces as antiques.
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Doos · Post by **Doos** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:59 am

Uhm, my head wasn't screwed on right again.
The N2 mark is a makersmark, of Gebr. Niekerk from Groningen (1902-1927).
Which confirms my Groninger suspicions.
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GAM · Post by **GAM** » Fri Dec 23, 2005 8:10 pm

Doos,

Your comments have proven to be wonderfully insightful again. You have awakened an interest in silver markings that I didn't even know I had. Thanks again for all your thoughtful research.
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