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Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:10 am
by Gary Friar
Dear silver specialists,

This may well be a rather odd question, but i'm cataloguing a rather large private collection of fine art which contains a majority of great contemporary and post war paintings (my specialism) but also some very attractive silver objects. But, to put it to mildly, the latter is not my strong suit.

Hopefully someone is willing to help me out with providing me with a general (physical) description of, what i believe to be is, a 'Kraantjeskan''. Better known as a coffee pot/urn. Preferable in english!

What is known to me:

It's was made by based Horatius van der Velde, in circa 1690.
Unfortunately the pot is unmarked with the exception of a tax mark in the rim (crowned V) and ten (!) alloy marks which we call a 'trembleersteek'.



Thank you in advance!

[img]<a%20href="https://ibb.co/DMB2LsM"><img%20src="https://i.ibb.co/NN0B7QN/VEL-229-01.jpg"%20alt="VEL-229-01"%20border="0"></a>[/img]

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:13 am
by Gary Friar

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Wed May 15, 2019 8:47 am
by oel
Image

Hi Gary,

You are showing us a whopper of a coffee urn. Great piece of work!

Horatius van de Velde, registered in Arnhem 1659-1701. Maker's mark HVDV (conjoined). The museum of Arnhem shows us another silver water kettle made by Horatius van de Velde. Note the decoration of the lid of this kettle and compare with your "coffee pot" . The Arnhem silversmith Horatius van de Velde has produced a rare and beautiful specimen in which the decorations have been cut out (sawed) and then soldered onto the kettle.
A striking feature of this kettle are the sawed and applied leafy ornaments in the so-called cut-card technique. Only few examples of this labor-intensive technique have been preserved. The kettle shows the quality of the silversmith Horatius van de Velde at a time when the nobility of Gelderland still placed their orders with local silversmiths. The crowned weapon with ox head on the lid button probably refers to the Arnhem Van Aller family.

https://www.museumarnhem.nl/collectie/1662/waterketel/
For Arnhem see:
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 028#p80360

By the middle of the 17th Century, coffee became more and more popular in Europe, but the well-known coffee urns were until then completely unknown. Coffee was initially made in simple high jugs, usually made of copper or pewter with a spout, a similar model to today's coffee pots. During the rise of drinking coffee, it was often drunk in so-called special coffee houses.

A new type of coffee pot developed under the influence of the increased demand for coffee at the end of the seventeenth century. Possibly the increasing popularity of the coffee house also had a major influence on the development of a new type of coffee pot. Because visitors wanted to drink more and more coffee, there was a need to be able to tap the drink themselves. This is possible with a coffee urn, where one or three taps are mounted in the belly of the urn Because the tap is not completely at the bottom of the urn, the coffee grounds remains in the belly of the urn. Moreover, the location of the tap prevents the urn from boiling dry; a heating element is part of the urn that is often, and also in this case, not preserved.

This urn also proved ideal for domestic use. Initially, just like regular coffee pots, the coffee urns were conical in shape. At the beginning of the eighteenth century the pear or baluster shaped coffee urn came into use, a form that is typical of the Baroque. This remained the most popular model until well into the nineteenth century. With the rise of electric coffee makers in the twentieth century, the pewter urn slowly disappeared from everyday life


https://www.tinmuseum.nl/verhalen/Verha ... intColor=2


Peter.

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Thu May 16, 2019 7:58 pm
by Aguest
I see a mention of a "Crowned V" mark in the thread linked by Oel :: What exactly does this mark mean? : Sorry I get confused :::

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 1:24 am
by oel
Hi Aguest,

The crowned V is a later applied duty mark. Crowned V for large items; duty mark for foreign and other untaxed objects used 1814-1893. This duty mark does not give any guarantee of a precious metal standard of fineness. This mark has been used on metal with a 250 minimum silver content as a duty mark. This mark was destined for all imported, unmarked and invalid marked objects of foreign, national and unknown origin. Upon the invalidation of the hallmarks of Louis Napoleon's kingdom of Holland and those of the French Empire in 1816, this mark also has been used as a tax free census mark.
See:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=32028


Peter

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 7:47 am
by Gary Friar
oel wrote:Image

Hi Gary,

You are showing us a whopper of a coffee urn. Great piece of work!

Horatius van de Velde, registered in Arnhem 1659-1701. Maker's mark HVDV (conjoined). The museum of Arnhem shows us another silver water kettle made by Horatius van de Velde. Note the decoration of the lid of this kettle and compare with your "coffee pot" . The Arnhem silversmith Horatius van de Velde has produced a rare and beautiful specimen in which the decorations have been cut out (sawed) and then soldered onto the kettle.
A striking feature of this kettle are the sawed and applied leafy ornaments in the so-called cut-card technique. Only few examples of this labor-intensive technique have been preserved. The kettle shows the quality of the silversmith Horatius van de Velde at a time when the nobility of Gelderland still placed their orders with local silversmiths. The crowned weapon with ox head on the lid button probably refers to the Arnhem Van Aller family.

https://www.museumarnhem.nl/collectie/1662/waterketel/
For Arnhem see:
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 028#p80360

By the middle of the 17th Century, coffee became more and more popular in Europe, but the well-known coffee urns were until then completely unknown. Coffee was initially made in simple high jugs, usually made of copper or pewter with a spout, a similar model to today's coffee pots. During the rise of drinking coffee, it was often drunk in so-called special coffee houses.

A new type of coffee pot developed under the influence of the increased demand for coffee at the end of the seventeenth century. Possibly the increasing popularity of the coffee house also had a major influence on the development of a new type of coffee pot. Because visitors wanted to drink more and more coffee, there was a need to be able to tap the drink themselves. This is possible with a coffee urn, where one or three taps are mounted in the belly of the urn Because the tap is not completely at the bottom of the urn, the coffee grounds remains in the belly of the urn. Moreover, the location of the tap prevents the urn from boiling dry; a heating element is part of the urn that is often, and also in this case, not preserved.

This urn also proved ideal for domestic use. Initially, just like regular coffee pots, the coffee urns were conical in shape. At the beginning of the eighteenth century the pear or baluster shaped coffee urn came into use, a form that is typical of the Baroque. This remained the most popular model until well into the nineteenth century. With the rise of electric coffee makers in the twentieth century, the pewter urn slowly disappeared from everyday life


https://www.tinmuseum.nl/verhalen/Verha ... intColor=2


Peter.



Thank you Peter, again.

This is helpfull.

I believe the cut-card technique is quite uncommon. Nice to read the story behind it.

To be quite honest, i was actually looking for a more physical description of this item.

Someone?

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 8:15 am
by legrandmogol
Late 17th century Dutch Baroque with Auricular scrolling handles and feet, gadrooned base? Does this help

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:23 am
by oel
"To put in my two-penny worth" for the catalog; late 17 century Dutch coffee urn conical shaped body, applied leafy decoration, cut- card technique, attached to the upper body two "sea horse" or scroll type handels, with three decorative taps attached to the lower body, gadrooned base carried by three spreading S scroll feet. Lid with applied leafy decoration, cut-card technique and finial top.
Hence the statement "One Picture Worth Ten Thousand Words"


Peter.

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Fri May 17, 2019 9:56 am
by legrandmogol
Flawless. When will you write a book on Dutch silver for us Peter? I will purchase it in advance!

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 6:04 am
by JayT
Wonderful description. I wouldn’t change a word, but would change the order. I’d begin with the bottom of the urn, and work up to the top. This is a convention for French silver - perhaps not for Dutch?

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:20 am
by oel
Thank you both.

Yes, bottom to top to describe (Dutch) silver is used by all major Auction House in Holland and all over the world. Convention rules for silver are used by proffesional appraisers. Whom am I to go aigainst the rules. Bottom to Top it must be. OK JayT Je maintiendrai

Cheers,

Peter

Re: Physical description of a large Dutch silver Coffee Pot, late 17th century.

Posted: Thu Jun 20, 2019 5:40 am
by Gary Friar
Thank you everyone, this was very helpfull indeed!