Date of these Leiden forks please

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SilverK
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:46 pm

Date of these Leiden forks please

Postby SilverK » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:10 am

Here's a simple one for those with the right books. These dessert forks were made, I believe, by Willem van den Goorberg in Leiden near the end of the 18th century. I'm trying to get the correct date for them, but since I can't find a chart with pictures of 18th century Leiden marks I can't establish the correct date, not helped by the ambiguity of the date letter which could be a J or T. As a result, I'm not even sure if the date falls into the 1759-1783 cycle or the 1784-1807 cycle. Could someone help by identifying the exact date, please?

Does anyone know of an on-line location where the pre-19th century Dutch marks are all laid out in picture from for people like me who don't have the right books?

Thanks very much,

silverk.

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oel
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Posts: 3672
Joined: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:16 pm
Location: The Netherlands

Re: Date of these Leiden forks please

Postby oel » Fri Jul 19, 2019 10:57 am

Hi Silverk,

The maker's mark W.G for Willem van de(n) Goorberg, registered in Leiden 1779-1816..? Year letter slanted capital T for 1801, during the end of the last alphabet, the province standard mark of Holland, the lion rampant seen in a shield without crown.
Willem van den Goorberg was born on 8 June 1754 in Delft. He worked as a silversmith in Leiden from 1779 to 1816...? 1833 (died).
https://www.openarch.nl/elo:61d21dcc-a6 ... ec4ff38c42
During the Leiden guild period he used two maker's marks; W.G an W:G in a rectangle, during the French occupation, Kingdom of Holland 1807-1812 maker's mark Wg in a"square"shield. Later his maker's mark conform French rule in a lozenge: G above an Anchor 1812-1816....
I believe you know both sites below, for the moment not much more to find online and both have a commercial goal:
https://keuren.zilver.nl/author/tackenco/page/44/
http://wiki.gzu-online.com/index2.php?p ... 700&dd_to=


Source;
Karel A. Citroen, Dutch Goldsmiths' and Silversmiths' Marks and Names prior to 1812
W. Koonings De keuring van goud en zilver tijdens het Koninkrijk Holland
Waarborgholland, ˜Netherlands' Responsibility Marks since 1797
Leids Zilver Stedelijk museum de Lakenhal -Leiden
L.B. Gans Nederlands Goud- & Zilvermerken van Voet,


Peter.

SilverK
Posts: 174
Joined: Thu Oct 30, 2014 5:46 pm

Re: Date of these Leiden forks please

Postby SilverK » Sat Jul 20, 2019 4:43 am

Hi Peter,

Thanks very much indeed for your very fast and informative reply. I rather thought they were 1801, but I was hoping they would be a little earlier given their 18th century design!

I'm aware of those sites, of course, but I'm hoping that someone someday will come up with a Dutch equivalent of silvermakersmarks.co.uk which has both British makers marks and British date letters, all in an easy to find format.... and not for commercial purposes! I was hoping that it existed already and I'd just missed it.

Best regards,

silverk.


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