Provincial marks?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
mk209
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Provincial marks?

Postby mk209 » Sun May 18, 2014 5:50 am

Need help to identify these marks I can't find them listed in books so they may not be British after all?


Image

Image



Thanks.

dognose
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Re: Provincial marks?

Postby dognose » Sun May 18, 2014 6:20 am

Hi,

The spoon is Scottish.

That set of marks is attributed to Alexander Ross. There is uncertainty as to the location of Ross's workshops, but it is thought likely that it may have been situated at Dingwall. His working period is thought to be c.1760-c.1800.

Please remember in future posts to keep your images to within the 7" (18cm) width limits, or else people with smaller monitors may not see the whole image.

Trev.

mk209
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Provincial marks?

Postby mk209 » Sun May 18, 2014 7:33 am

Thanks Trev, I've only ever seen 'AR' with a sunburst for Alex Ross for Tain/Dingwall. The odd looking sideways 'S' I haven't seen before. I take it the maker is quite scarce?

dognose
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Re: Provincial marks?

Postby dognose » Sun May 18, 2014 7:46 am

Hi,

I'm sure I've seen that backward 'S' before, but cannot recall the other marks with it.

There's no doubting the 'A·R' though, it definitely Ross's mark, and yes, one that's not often seen. Nice find.

Trev.

robert12
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other examples

Postby robert12 » Sat May 24, 2014 3:20 pm

Hi all,
just to add to the mix.
I have got 2 table spoons with these marks for comparison.
An interesting variation of marks on heavy and well made spoons.
https://db.tt/vMcPK9aD
https://db.tt/kAgdHozb
https://db.tt/LX4RnUIS

Estelle Quick the silver expert at Tain Museum had not seen the backwards S before.
Still a bit of a mystery though.

Bob

mk209
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Provincial marks?

Postby mk209 » Sat May 24, 2014 4:55 pm

That's superb Bob, your spoons have just tied up all the known punches. There's an article in the Finial which sheds a bit more light on the chronological order of the marks. My spoon was suggested to be the first incarnation of the marks, yours tie up the 'S' with my marks. The article suggested the bird in flight mark may be last along with the sunburst as those punches appear to have been inherited by another maker who used those marks along with 'JH' at a later date.

Estelle Quick in her book 'A balance of Silver, the Story of the Silversmiths of Tain' could not find any evidence of the maker in Tain or surrounding areas. There was a new theory of the marks pointing towards Dumfries mentioned in the article but I've not found any more info since that article was published.

The article was by Colin T Fraser, FSA Scot.

Here's a link to the article: http://www.incorporationofgoldsmiths.org/content/media/The-Finial-Vol.-18-01-Sep-Oct-2007-Interesting-Family-of-Marks.pdf

Interesting stuff, I'm very happy to have found such an interesting spoon, it's my first Scottish provincial spoon.

robert12
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Re: Provincial marks?

Postby robert12 » Sat May 24, 2014 5:56 pm

Hi,
pleased to throw a bit more light on this set of marks.
I gave a copy of these marks to Estelle Quick recently and said feel free to share with
Colin.T.Fraser the expert in this field if he wishes to view them.
Perhaps the puzzle will be solved.
Still in my unsubscribed box. With a few others !
Enjoy hunting for more Scottish gems.

Bob

mk209
Posts: 87
Joined: Sun Jun 23, 2013 3:15 pm

Re: Provincial marks?

Postby mk209 » Thu May 29, 2014 9:28 am

Something very familiar about these marks from banff..........Alexander Shirras c.1750

Image

Aguest
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Re: Provincial marks?

Postby Aguest » Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:30 am

::: I bought several spoons which keep turning out to be Provincial :::

Image

Image

Image

dognose
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Re: Provincial marks?

Postby dognose » Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:00 am

Hi,

No, that is the American silversmith, Asa Sibley.

Trev.

buckler
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Re: Provincial marks?

Postby buckler » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:16 pm

Just to stir the pot there are several buckles which have a distinct Scots flavour which carry assorted AR marks . One, which was very similar to this one, including the position of the mullet was attributed by Charlie Stott of Hayward & Stott Limited to Alexander Rollo of Dundee c. 1790
I notice that Richard Turner is very coy in his book on these marks.


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