French maker JM

[Ubaranda]

Hi all!
I think that this mark belongs to Jack Morel but I don't sure.
Thank in advance for any help.

[Zilver2]

Hello,
This is the mark of Jean Moucheront, manufacturer silversmith & gilder.
24 rue Beaubourg, Paris (gilding)
6 Villa Corbeau, Fontenay-sous-Bois (department 94)
14 rue Charles Ollier, Perreux-sur-Marne (department 94)
N° de garantie : 3005; 3929 (gilding)
N° de préfecture : 15783; 17103 (dgilding)
Symbol : a gabion
Mark entered : 5 February 1920; 25 May 1923 (gilding)

[Ubaranda]

Hi Zilver2!
Many thanks for your quick reply!
But I think the mark on my item differs from the mark of http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36359
Best regards. Alex.

[Zilver2]

Hello Alex,
Look again it is for sure the same mark.

The mark of Jack Morel is an ear of corn over a pellet (un épi de blé et un point au-dessous).
Regards

[Francais]

I don't know which mark is which, but I can explain the problem. The translation of épi de blé is not ear of corn, but head of wheat (or I suppose ear of wheat). Like many French words and phrases there are multiple meanings less often used. So for instance it could also be a baguette of bread shaped like an épi de blé. A gabion is basically a wire enclosure, sometimes in the form of a column (sometimes called an épi). These are usually used to retain the sides of a river embankment or was also used as an artillery defense works, landscaping etc.

I don't know either silversmith or their marks, but the descriptions are obviously easily confused.
Maurice

[Francais]

Not to confuse the issue but my version of marks 1838-75, shows a mark that looks like this mark no 02618 of Jules Morrel, and says the symbol is a marelle a jeu d'enfant, which I believe would translate as hopscotch, but the grid is different. I don't think all three descriptions can be right. Also it says Morrel made la fantaisie or costume jewelry. Since Jack Morel also made jewelry I would guess Moucheront is the best bet, although I don't think the two marks look even vaguely similar.

Maurice

[Essexboy Fisher]

Hello I’ve just bought a small souvenir spoon and wondered if I could join the French JM maker discussion? I bought my spoon on line with the feeling its maker’s mark was the JM with the “beehive “ in between the 2 letters belonging to the Paris silversmith “Joseph Mondinelli”.



My own photo of the mark confirms to me it is not this maker and also, it does not appear to be the mark of “Jules Marie” whose mark shows a lighthouse between the J and M. Additionally the “orientation” of the maker’s mark on my spoon and the illustrated “Marie” mark is 90 degrees different in the cartouches.
The mark on my spoon does appear very similar to the mark of “Jean Moucheront” as identified and pictured in the post http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=36359.
This mark is described as having a “gabion” between the J and M. My spoon’s mark is not quite a mirror image to the slightly tapered gabion on Larryseale’s spoon, but a better match than for the “regimented” grid shown on Ubaranda’s bowl.
Is there any stylistic dating to be obtained from the silver items noted in the two posts and the working periods of the possible silversmiths? How vigorous was the registration of minor changes to marks in Paris? I would believe my spoon to be a 20th century spoon with the good image of the “Arc De Triumph” as its finial. It is an 800 standard spoon. I did also wonder if Francais might have knowledge of any other everyday item the images on Larryseale’s and my spoon’s maker’s mark could have been if not a gabion. Could it be a sheaf of corn or oats?
Yours
Fishless

[JayT]

Believe Moucheront is your man, as identified by Zilver2. The symbol looks like a gabion to me. Furthermore, Moucheront worked in the 20thC, not the 19thC.

To answer your question about the appearance of a French maker's mark: the maker uses his punch to strike a mark once on a flat sheet of copper when he first registers. This becomes his official mark, and is what is reproduced in guides to makers' marks. He uses only one punch throughout his career. This is tightly controlled. He can re-register if his circumstances change (takes on a partner, address change, etc.) or if the punch breaks. Otherwise the punch stays the same. That said, in real life, the maker's mark will vary slightly in appearance from object to object depending on such factors as wear to the object or to the punch, surface on which the mark was punched (concave, convex, etc.), or how deeply it was struck, for example.

Hope this helps.