Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
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cgonzalez100
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:44 pm

Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by cgonzalez100 »

I have a set of French silver cutlery. I tried to identify the maker but I am having difficulty finding a silversmith with these initials and symbol. The maker's mark looks very similar to that of Guillaume DENINGER, Maison DENIÈRE, a spoon with a ribbon above a gear or wheel. But the initials are N.D. instead of G.D.
I do not know if there is a connection, perhaps a successor?
Any help would be appreciated. Thank you

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Traintime
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Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by Traintime »

The list of Parisian Silversmiths and Jewelers up to 1914 with "no marks illustrated" indicates a Nicolas Doubesky (N. D.) List is under makers marks, in this case the "N" section. Guessing your Minerva in cartouche is for the pre-1972 type indicating .950 fineness (chart for old marks). Hope this answer doesn't complicate your search. Good Luck.
Zilver2
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Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by Zilver2 »

Hello,
The mark belongs indeed to Guillaume Denière, 9 rue d'Orléans, Paris.
The letter N is considered as a part of the symbol (N° 03326).
Regards
cgonzalez100
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Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2016 9:44 pm

Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by cgonzalez100 »

Thank you both for taking the time to aid in my search, I greatly appreciate your help and expertise.
I searched for the ND mark, including searching this wonderful site, and discovered that there were only a couple of silversmith's with those exact initials. Nicolas Doubesky used a flambeau/torch as his logo. Zilver2, you are correct. Indeed this mark is that of Denière. I did not realize he would use this mark in addition to the more common one with his initials.Thank you again for confirming my suspicion that this mark was connected to Denière

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Traintime
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Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by Traintime »

Looks like a good one for updating the encyclopedia listings! Can we get the source information on where the marks were identified for future reference? May help someone else. Great info.!
Arnold25
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Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by Arnold25 »

Zilver2 wrote:Hello,
The mark belongs indeed to Guillaume Denière, 9 rue d'Orléans, Paris.
The letter N is considered as a part of the symbol (N° 03326).
Regards
From which book does that reference "03326" is taken from ?
(i also have a Guillaume Denière with "ND")
Regards,
blakstone
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Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by blakstone »

Guillaume Deninger dit Deniere

Born: 2 May 1815, Paris, son of Jean Francois Deninger (1775-1866) & Ann Francoise Victoire Castambide
Married: 26 Jun 1844, Paris, 5th arrondissement, to Adelaide Marie Anais Callou (21 Apr 1823-4 Oct 1876)
Died: 20 Nov 1901, Paris, 8th arrondissement


Deniere (the family name was acutally Deninger) took over Maison Deniere, an important manufacturer of bronzes and silverware, from his father in 1850; they were suppliers to the French royalty and nobility. He served as president of the Paris Chamber of Commerce and Industry 1867-1872, Regent of the Bank of France 1866-1888, and Councillor General of the Seine 1856-1871. He is buried in Pere Lachaise.

I strongly suspect this “ND” mark was simply an engraver’s error. Deniere cancelled the mark within a fortnight and replaced it with and identical one bearing the correct initials “GD”.

Lastly, the reference is from Catherine Arminjon, et al. Dictionnaire des poincons de fabricants d’ouvrages d’or et d’argent, V. II 1838-1875. (Paris, Imprimerie Nationale,1994), the standard reference for Parisian maker's marks from the July Monarchy through the Second Empire. This and the earlier volume covering 1798-1838 are usually abbreviated Arminjon I and Arminjon II, followed by the entry number of the mark in that volume: Arminjon II:03326. (Deniere's second mark is Arminjon II:01933, and his father's is Arminjon II:01164).
Arnold25
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Re: Please Help To Identify Silversmith On French Silver Cutlery

Post by Arnold25 »

Thank you very much Blakstone
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