swiss spoons dated 1583

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Blacklobster
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Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:17 am

swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Blacklobster » Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:49 am

I am looking for help on these two Swiss silver spoons dated 1583.
The spoons are Approx 11cm long.
Both have the same hallmarks on the back of the bowls as shown in the photos.

Any help would be gratefully received.


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Joerg
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Posts: 366
Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:41 am
Location: Switzerland

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Joerg » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:57 pm

Dear Blacklobster

welcome to the forum.

Why are you sure the are Swiss? I studied my references for Swiss silver and I can not find a match.
Anyway, I would place them in the (late?) 19th century. The oldest Swiss reference I fond for the use of the "13" is from around 1800.

Regards

Jörg

Joerg
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Location: Switzerland

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Joerg » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:09 pm

I forgot:

The spoons are called "Hermenlöffel", Herma Spoons. Silversmith in the Region of Zurich made such spoons in the late 17 century.
They usually bear a makers mark and a city or wardein mark, not a "13"
Regards

Jörg

Blacklobster
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:17 am

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Blacklobster » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:43 pm

Thank you for your reply,
Since I posted this post I have realized they are a Swiss style but probably not Swiss.
I had found this spoon at Christies which had thrown me in the wrong direction as they describe it as a Swiss spoon -

admin edit please read forum rules

I am now trying to find where they really originate from, I am thinking maybe Austro- Hungarian as they used the "13" mark during the 19th century?
Last edited by oel on Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Link to Christies lot finder

Hose_dk
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Location: Denmark

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Hose_dk » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:04 pm

I find them nice. Could you tale picture of both marks on both spoons. I would like to see the marks together to compair. 13 with 13 and maker with maker.
i.e. see all 4 marks.

Blacklobster
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:17 am

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Blacklobster » Sat Oct 27, 2012 6:55 am

Hello,

Thank you for your interest in my post, I hope these two photos will help....

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Blacklobster
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:17 am

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Blacklobster » Sat Oct 27, 2012 7:03 am

A couple more photos,



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Image

Joerg
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Posts: 366
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Location: Switzerland

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Joerg » Sat Oct 27, 2012 2:53 pm

Dear Blacklobsters

"13" was widely used in Germany, the Austrian Empire and Switzerland. I do not think they are Austrian.
In 1583 the "13" was not in use in Switzerland. It was common from around 1800 until approximately 1860 - 1880. Then it was replaced by the "800" purity mark. "Hermenlöffel" were produced in Switzerland from approximately 1650 until in the early 1700. The distintctive base of your spoons can be found around 1600 to 1700.
I think your spoons are a quality work in ancient style. In my opinion a work from around 1850 to 1880. Maybe from Germany, but also possible Switzerland. For example Bossard in Lucern was (in)famous for creating high quality articels in ancient syles. And, if wished by the customer, with ancient marks or fantasy marks.

Have you tried identifying the family crest? There are specialised websites. That could also help.

Regards

Jörg

Blacklobster
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Oct 26, 2012 10:17 am

Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Blacklobster » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:19 am

Dear Joerg,

Thank you so much for all you information , it has been very useful.
I will try my best to find the crest on the spoons as this will be very interesting.

Theoderich
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Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Theoderich » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:50 am

Yes - pseudomarks :-)

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Best Wishes
Theo

dognose
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Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby dognose » Sat Apr 05, 2014 10:32 am

Image
J. Bossard - Lucerne - 1894

Trev.

Theoderich
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Re: swiss spoons dated 1583

Postby Theoderich » Mon Sep 10, 2018 1:58 pm

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=51630

probably Hanau pseudomarks
Gebr. Dingeldein of Hanau


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