Vienna Austria [KTA]

[Aguest]

:: The Dog's Head hallmark appears to have a "3" next to it, which indicates 800 silver? ::

:: These hallmarks are so tiny, but it looks like {KTA} and I have not found anything ::

[huszas76]

Hello Aguest!
I understand, why did you think, it's Austria-Hungary (not only Austria!), but in the Austrian-Hungarian hallmark between 1872-1922 you ALWAYS have to find an assay office letter. What made you think, it's Wien? So if it would be Vienna, there would be an "A". Check Here:
http://www.925-1000.com/Faustria_02.html
Your Item made in Hungary between 1937-1966. Hungary used a very similar hallmark for the small items, but WITHOUT any office letter. The silver content is 800‰ too.
The tinypics not working now, later will show you the hallmark.
I will try to find the maker for you.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[Aguest]

: Yes I confused the two similar dog's head hallmarks, it is Hungary :
:::: I did wonder why there was no letter next to the dog's nose, and the lack of other hallmarks ::::

+ Also, the overall style and application of the 14k gold monogram just reminds me more of Russia,
so to find out it is not Vienna makes more sense in terms of the overall style. Perhaps this maker
was trained in Russia?

I wish I could change the title of this thread to Hungary [KTA], and now I will search for a Hungarian maker

[Aguest]

I thought this "1" mark was an internal factory code, but now after further review, it could be a city mark for somewhere in Hungary?

[AG2012]

Hi,
During a short four- year period (1868-1872) there was no letter for city mark within the mark but struck beside it in a small rectangle.
The style of the cigarette case and lack of that secondary mark indicates later production and most probably Hungary (as already stated). I have seen ``dog`s head`` in rather large objects (e.g. bowls) made in Hungary after The Great War.
Very unlikely the maker was trained in Russia. He had equal training opportunities both in Austria- Hungary and Germany at the time, and besides, monograms in gold can be seen on cigarette cases everywhere in Europe.
Hopefully, huszas76 will identify the maker.
Regards

[Aguest]

There does exist a similar box with the exact same hallmarks which I found on the interzone, it even has the same stylized "1" in the number "16" and it does not identify the maker....

However, another box was found and the research was indicated as thus:

Karl Adler 1853-1912, Karl Adamec 1919 -1922, Karl Allescher 1912-1937, Karl Anderl 1920-1924

The maker Karl Allescher was identified in yet another example of another box, and so I tend to lean towards Karl Allescher, who also happens to be listed as working until 1937, and this hallmark would indicate to find a maker who was working into the 1930's and probably beyond....

Thanks for everyone's help, still not completely convinced, but it must be a Karl of some kind :)

[huszas76]

Hello Aguest!
It's obviously cannot be any of your guess.
The most reason is: In Hungary the given name is the second, the surname is the first. So if the maker would be Karl (in hungarian Károly), the mark would totally different, for example ATK, or TAK.
Most likely the maker of your box was the firm of "Kurtz Testvérek és Adler Vilmos.
This paper from 1927:




The sources mentioned Kurcz Izsák and Ferenc from 1913. The last mentioning of the firm as KTA is from 1944.
As you can read, they were specialist of the gold- und silver boxes.
I hope this helps.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[dognose]

Some detail from the Budapest telephone directory of 1936:



The firm's business name is now listed as 'Kurcz Testvérek és Adler', the word 'Vilmos' appears to be no longer part of their title, which would fit in perfectly with 'KTA'.

Trev.

[huszas76]

Vilmos not just a word, but the given name of the firm member Adler. Vilmos = William in hungarian.
Best regards!
Krisztián

[dognose]

Hi Krisztián,

Indeed it would be Kurcz Brothers and William Adler if written in English, but the point I was trying to make was that by 1936 the firm appears to have dropped the word 'Vilmos' from their title and perhaps at some point earlier their mark may have been different, perhaps 'KTAV'

Some detail from a Budapest directory of 1928:



It's just pure speculation on my part, but if it was correct it would fine tune the date of the case to between 1928-1936.

Trev.

[Aguest]

Amazing Research!!! Very grateful to you for finding these references to the box makers ::: There are a few archived examples of boxes on the interzone which all have the KTA mark and they all attribute their boxes to Karl Allescher (it would still be interesting to see a mark by Karl Allescher and the other Karls as well), but this research is very helpful indeed :::

This research will help not only this example of a KTA box with Hungarian Hallmarks, but it will help all other people who have similar examples both in the present and in the future :::

{ thanks again }

[Aguest]

Just to clarify, all the pictures of [KTA] boxes which speculated Karl Allescher (you can google them on the interzone) were Americans who apparently only had access to the Austro-Hungarian database which is in English :::

If you do a quick google search for "Kurcz Testvérek és Adler Vilmos" you will find many amazing examples of their boxes, all of which are described in the Hungarian language, most of which are in a museum in Budapest :::

They did make beautiful boxes indeed :::