What word on wine label?

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 12:46 pm

Here is a nice wine label made in Birmingham 1833 by Joseph Willmore.
I cannot decipher the lettering on the front; please help!

Miles

Post by **admin** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:26 pm

wrong, I know, but it was fun to try.
Tom

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:29 pm

Sorry, it was made in 1840.

Miles

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:32 pm

Are you sure that's wrong Tom? I can see that working.

Miles

Post by **admin** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:33 pm

Of course it is wrong, but why because of the date? Thought it was being imported to England since the 17th century.

Problem is, with a little effort, could probably create almost any letter combo from a mono that complex.

Tom

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:39 pm

I was writing my message while you were posting your message; this seems to happen all the time to me!

PORT seems like the most likely option to me: you've used all the lines so it can't be a longer word. There was a crude attachment on the back to allow it to hang vertically with your idea readable.
It's possible that it was just decoration of course.

Miles

Post by **admin** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 4:47 pm

In all seriousness, I think the Bellflower device indicates the bottom, traditional that decorative device points downward. That being the case, all of my letters are upside down. What letters I can pull from it - right side up, are; I, J, d & q. In reality, I think it is an owner's monogram, highly unusual on a bottle ticket.

Regards, Tom

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 5:16 pm

I'd be interested to know when wine labels were engraved. Were they sold blank for the buyer to have engraved, perhaps the sellers did it on purchase.

One would think putting initials on a wine lable would make it useless. Of course, having an unreadable word would be pointless too, so you're probably right Tom. Though I think the attachment shows which way up it should be, unless the attacher couldn't tell which way was which!

Miles

Post by **admin** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:22 pm

Miles,
Are the vine tendrils that the chains are attached to separate parts with solder joints?

Tom

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 6:46 pm

No, they are the original loops. The more recent one was just soldered on the back; I removed it.

Miles

Post by **admin** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:10 pm

I think I've figured out what is bothering me about this label. In the darkened band there are two opposed tendril loops that make no sense in the reverse symmetry of the design, unless they were intended for chain hanging. I'm sure it is too much to hope for, but by any chance is the red arrowed loop drilled?

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:25 pm

I had a bit of a poke about with a pin, but it's solid. It's smaller than the actual loops as well.

Miles

Post by **admin** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:28 pm

ah, well, so much for my theory. Thanks for your patience.
Tom

Post by **Granmaa** » Wed Feb 21, 2007 7:45 pm

Thankyou for your help Tom; I'd still be trying to form CLARET or MADEIRA out of the jumble if it weren't for you.

My new theory: ostentatious man asks engraver to put his initials on wine label and insists on this font. Engraver can only fit it on vertically, so does so. Man is furious, forces engraver to attach a new loop. Man shows off new wine labels to dinner guests; dinner guests think man is an idiot.

Miles