The Ivanov book

[Atlas]

Hi,
Any tips regarding availibility of the Alexander Ivanov's book "Gold and silversmiths in Russia 1600-1926" anywhere?

Regards,
- Atlas -

[AG2012]

It can be downloaded here;

Volume I

http://www.geokniga.org/bookfiles/geokn ... -tom-1.pdf


Volume II

http://www.geokniga.org/bookfiles/geokn ... -tom-2.pdf

Tell us if you managed to save both volumes.
Regards

[oel]

Hi AG2012,

Thank you so very much. Downloaded both volumes I & II of Alexander Nikolaevich Ivanov Gold and Silversmiths in Russia (1600-1926) A guide for art experts. Recommended by the Ministry of culture of the Russian Federation... The edition is carried out by order of the Russian national museum Moscow 2002. Size of one volume is 89.7 MB

Great reading material and clear images. Primary written in the Russian language however with a clear secondary version in the English language. Some 905 pages for the winter season.

Peter.

[Atlas]

Hi AG2012,

Thank you so very, very much. This really made the rest of the year for me ( + the years to come).

Best regards,

- Atlas -

[Goldstein]

Hi -

a fake Fabergé mark on the front page of the book.....It is advisable to compare the content with other informations from other sources!
Overall: helpful!

My personal opinion
Goldstein

[oel]

Noticed interesting entry volume I page 17:

Art experts should keep in mind that from 1896 on in the Russian Empire it was not obligatory for gold & silversmiths to register their hallmark in assay establishments. That is why they could strike maker's marks of any size and shape they wanted because of that it is impossible to judge about the article's authenticity taking into consideration only maker's mark
If correct, to my opinion from 1896 the Moscow based silversmith/ Artel could give/borrow their maker's mark to a (registered) silversmith/Artel based in St. Petersburg. To apply the Moscow branch maker's mark in St. Petersburg in order to use the service of the local assay office.

In the introduction Ivanov mentioned the book Gold & Silver work in the XV-XX centuries M.M. Postnikova-Loseva, N.G. Platonova and B.L. Ulianova to contain less information on hallmarks and unfortunately no photo's but sketches.

Peter

[Goldstein]

Hi Peter -

I'm not telling you anything new here - but maybe I'll point out again:
There were among the Russian silversmiths / makers simple, better and very good ones.The problem today are the numerous fakes flooding the market.
If you judge an object only by the marks and not also by the manufacturer's handwriting, style and quality - then you have no chance to come to a reasonable judgment. But this presupposes a great experience and actual inspection of these objects - over years! Laws and marks changed and habits changed! Judging by the illustrations or orders in more or less reliable books only, you are lost.Experience is essential!
Today everyone is an expert - thanks to PL, Ivanov and the internet.I know "Russian experts" who have not one piece of Russian silver at home....or write long articles about "84 Zolotnikov"...

[AG2012]

Gold & Silver work in the XV-XX centuries M.M. Postnikova-Loseva, N.G. Platonova and B.L. Ulianova

Go to this link:

http://uvelir.info/files/557124/

Scroll down to green rectangle on the left side of the page with the word Скачать and click on it to download 1995 edition in pdf format.


Tell us if it works.
I am sure some of you have the book, even newer edition, but still useful for people asking for help with marks.

Introduction is very comprehensive in regard of assaying, will take time to search and translate.
Marks are indexed at the end, very helpful.
Regards

[AG2012]

As stated above ``how it`s made`` and experience come first. That helps to avoid mistakes to attribute cloisonne made in China the day before yesterday to e.g. G. Klingert just because there is ``GK`` mark found in books. On the other hand, consistency of marks and their shape are also very helpful.Since most of Russian silver in posts here (questions) come from average workshops those books provide basic knowledge to identify the maker.

[oel]

Hi Goldstein,

Thanks, I understand what you mean; style & quality and used techniques are more important than hallmarks. The hallmarks should confirm our conclusion. As stated in Ivanov Russian fakes are in abundance. No discussion.
However in the past there have been numerous discussions about Russian hallmarks, after 1896, which were not exactly as shown in Postnikova -Loseva or were assayed at the "wrong town" assay office. The reason why is perhaps given by Ivanov; perhaps unclear/wrong/missing sketches in PL and no registration silversmith's hallmark.

Hi AG2012,
Thanks for the link to download PL, although I bought PL 6 years ago, I downloaded the book on a memory stick for convenience.

Regards,

Peter