French?

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
legrandmogol
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French?

Postby legrandmogol » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:18 pm

I never have much luck with my French spoons but I have to ask. I believe the spoon is of 18th century French or French-influenced area make but I cannot find these marks anywhere. There is also a fairly impressive coat of arms for I believe a Marquis on it. If anyone can shed any light on the matter I would be most grateful.

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dognose
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Re: French?

Postby dognose » Mon Oct 15, 2018 3:46 pm

Hi Legrandmogol,

I would be surprised if it was not Swiss. 11 deniers = 913/1000.

Trev.

legrandmogol
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Re: French?

Postby legrandmogol » Mon Oct 15, 2018 4:20 pm

I don't know why I always forget Switzerland. You are probably right. Nothing quite matches in Tardy's for these marks but Tardy's is not the final word by any means.

Aguest
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Re: French?

Postby Aguest » Mon Oct 15, 2018 7:48 pm

The overall form of the spoon is very similar to a few French spoons I have handled ::: So I see the French influence ::: The interesting thing is the drop on the spoon- where the handle meets the bowl- that is very pronounced and almost bulbous - when I look at the drop, I wonder about the age of the spoon, perhaps is this spoon late 18th century? Do you think the hallmarks are pointing into the 19th century? :::

legrandmogol
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Re: French?

Postby legrandmogol » Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:00 pm

I took a second look at Switzerland after Trevor's suggestion and so far it's the closest I can find. While not exactly the same, the Swiss city of Lausanne seems to be the only place that used the XI mark. In the reference book Weltliches Silber they use a similar mark rather regularly. However, none of the marks are close enough for me to think its spot on for Lausanne but it's looking more likely to me. As for the age, it could be 19th century but in my reference books, this type of construction usually dates spoons to around 1730 - 1780

blakstone
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Re: French?

Postby blakstone » Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:29 am

Great find and great call on ca. 1730/60 Switzerland! The maker is Jean-Pierre Dautun (1704-1768) of Morges, canton Vaud, the arms of which form the city mark here; the “XI” is the fineness: 11 deniers (.916). Dautun was a fine maker and the father of Pierre-Henri Dautun of the famous late 18th century firm of Papus & Dautun in Lausanne (also canton Vaud). Very nice!

Ref: Pierre-François de Vevey, Manuel des Orfèvres de Suisse Romande (Fribourg: Sotheby’s Office du Livre, 1985), p. 268, maker #1673, marks b, A & 1

Aguest
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Re: French?

Postby Aguest » Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:26 am

Perhaps the monogram could narrow down a more specific time; I did think it was earlier than 1800, but having never seen a spoon like this before, I really couldn't say exactly why :: Great Spoon! ::

legrandmogol
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Re: French?

Postby legrandmogol » Tue Oct 16, 2018 1:35 pm

Thank you for everyone's help. It is wonderful to know so much about the spoon. Now I just have to figure out the monogram but that should be easier now that I know its origins. And Blakstone, it was your article in ASCAS that first led me to the book Weltliches Silber. I have been meaning to get the sequel and the book you referenced here but they're not so easy or cheap to procure.

legrandmogol
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Re: French?

Postby legrandmogol » Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:50 pm

And thanks to being able to pinpoint the location of the spoons make I now know the crest Belongs to the Wurstemberger Family of Bern. Many were named David and there was a David Frederick born in 1771. They were also very wealthy

Joerg
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Re: French?

Postby Joerg » Fri Oct 19, 2018 3:00 pm

Hi legrandmogol
Both books, Weltliches Silber and Weltliches Silber II are still available from the Landesmuseum Bookstore. All of us have limited budget, so I recommend to go for Weltliches Silber II. This one is focussing on Swiss Silver from 1700 onwards up to the 20. century. But it has still a lot of earlier silver. Part II is also nicely organized with all marks in the back as a register and also with each iteam in the catalog. The maker of your Morges spoon is also listed. And it has an extensive flatware section.
You can order it here:
https://www.nationalmuseum.ch/d/zuerich ... schung.php
Weltliches Silber II. Von Hanspeter Lanz. Unter Mitarbeit von Ulrich Heusser et al. (Schweizerisches Landesmuseum, Zürich 2001).
568 S., Abb., ISBN 3-908025-34-6
Kind regards
Jörg

legrandmogol
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Re: French?

Postby legrandmogol » Fri Oct 19, 2018 6:55 pm

I appreciate your help and input. When I go to the museum's site I cannot find an option to purchase the book.


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