14K I*XL George Wostenholm Sheffield Knife

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
Traintime
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14K I*XL George Wostenholm Sheffield Knife

Postby Traintime » Tue Mar 12, 2019 3:56 am

I had to ask myself a lot of stupid questions about this "brass" folding knife before realizing where the gold marks might be...what a nice surprise. The file appears to be silver? plated at both ends. Anyone got an idea of dating and/or model name/number? Can we accept it is gold at the side halves too from the one mark?

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dognose
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Re: 14K I*XL George Wostenholm Sheffield Knife

Postby dognose » Tue Mar 12, 2019 4:15 am

Hi Traintime,

Can you post a close-up of the mark?

Trev.

Traintime
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Re: 14K I*XL George Wostenholm Sheffield Knife

Postby Traintime » Tue Mar 12, 2019 12:04 pm

Standards and makers marks & detail:

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After looking beyond all the people listing Stainless Steel blades as "Victorian" (??!!!!), found only one with these two tools in carbon steel with some original plate left intact. Or could it be polished nickel finish? I get the sense that the entire length may have been coated when new.

dognose
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Re: 14K I*XL George Wostenholm Sheffield Knife

Postby dognose » Tue Mar 12, 2019 2:54 pm

Hi Traintime,

It could be the case that the knife is American, using imported blades from Sheffield.

There was much misrepresentation in the marking of American pocket-knives in the early years of the 20th century, below is a couple of clippings that may be of interest:

Following the conference of the Gold Knife Manufacturers called by the committee of the National Jewelers Board of Trade, for the purpose of discussing and establishing some basis of standard in the construction and stamping of gold knives, the following resolution was tentatively adopted:

"A knife stamped with a mark indicating the karat fineness such as 10K. 14K, is improperly marked if between the skeleton and the gold sheet and metal, solder or composition is inserted by any method whatsoever unless that inserted part is of the same karat fineness, to wit: 10K 14K or 18K.

"The trade cannot protect the consumer to the extent of indicating how thick the gold is, or how much gold is used.

"We agree, however, that all parts which appear to be gold must be of the karat fineness indicated. Furthermore, we believe that the consumer has the right to assume that a base metal sheet, solder or other composition inserted under a gold sheet is gold of the karat mark on the gold if the gold sheet covers the edges of the insedted part.

"Our decision is to the same effect even if the base metal sheet is affixed to the skeleton or movement instead of the gold. A knife made of a gold sheet and a stiffening of base metal may well be a legitimate article of trade, but the mark indicating the karat fineness is improper unless the fineness of the gold and the stiffening or inserted part is up to the karat indicated."


Source: The American Cutler - February 1922


And another similar:


STAMPING GOLD KNIVES

Meeting of Manufacturers Called by Good and Welfare Committee of National Jewelers Board of Trade and Tentative Resolution Passed

For the purpose of discussing and if possible to set up a standard in the construction and stamping of gold knives, manufacturers of these articles met last Friday afternoon in the rooms of the National Jewelers Board of Trade, 15 Maiden Lane, New York. At the meeting, which was presided over by B. J. Coffey, chairman of the Good and Welfare Committee of the Board, about 14 manufacturers of knives were represented.

The meeting was called at the instigation of the Good and Welfare Committee, which body was of the opinion that the present method of making and stamping most of the knives now on the market is in violation of the law. In a letter sent out recently to manufacturers asking them to meet last Friday the Good and Welfare Committee wrote in part as follows:

"The attention of the Good and Welfare Committee of the National Jewelers Board of Trade has been called to the consideration of certain knives stamped '10 K.' or '14 K.' gold, but the stiffening or backing of which is of a base metal, the knife having the appearance of being made wholly of gold.

"The opinion of the Good and Welfare Committee is that the construction of such knives and stamping is not only misleading to the consumer but that a conviction for violation of the stamping law could be secured in the State of New York, in which counsel to the committee concurs."

The letter continued by stating that as the result of a conference the general meeting was called for last Friday with a view of formulating and agreeing upon a trade practice which would be in strict compliance with the law and permit of no deception to the consumer.

The subject was thoroughly discussed at the meeting last Friday and a number of knives were also submitted. Following the discussion, M. L. Ernst, of Greenbaum, Wolff & Ernst, attorneys for the Good and Welfare Committee was instructed to draw up a resolution which he did and which was tentatively passed. This resolution will be sent to knife manufacturers and will be further discussed at another meeting to be held at the Board's rooms at 2 P.M. on Tuesday, Feb. 14.

The resolution as tentatively passed reads as follows:

"A knife marked with a mark indicating the karat fineness such as 10K., 14K or 18K. is improperly marked if, between the skeleton and the gold sheet, any metal, solder or composition is inserted by any method whatsoever, unless that inserted part is of the same karat fineness, to wit: 10K., 14K. or 18K.

"The trade cannot protect the consumer to the extent of indicating how thick the gold is, or how much gold is used.

"We agreed, however, that all parts which appeared to be gold, must be of the karat fineness indicated. Furthermore, we believe that the consumer has the right to assume that a base metal sheet, solder, or other composition inserted under a gold sheet, is gold of the karat mark on the gold, if the gold sheet covers the edges of the inserted part.

"Our decision is to the same effect even if the base metal sheet is affixed to the skeleton or movement instead of to the gold. A knife made of a gold sheet and a stiffening of base metal, may well be a legitimate article of trade, but the mark indicating the karat fineness is improper unless the fineness of the gold and the stiffening or inserted part is up to the karat indicated.

"In our opinion, a gold mounted knife consists of the following:

"(a) A gold sheet or shell;
"(b) The knife movement consisting of two scales, rivets, spring and blades.
"All parts other than the gold shell or sheet, if made to look like gold, must be of the karat fineness marked on the gold."

As far as could be learned the following firms were represented at the meeting: Carter, Gough & Co., Shiman Miller Mfg. Co., Untermeyer-Robbins & Co., Goldsmith, Stern & Co., Elgin American Mfg. Co., L. E. Freeman, Frisch Bros., Long & Koch, Durand & Co., Tomchin & Levinson, Brod & Co., Bassett Jly. Co., Ostby & Barton and Larter & Sons.


Source: The Jewelers' Circular - 1st February 1922

Trev.

Traintime
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Re: 14K I*XL George Wostenholm Sheffield Knife

Postby Traintime » Wed Mar 13, 2019 12:05 pm

Yow and yikes! I'll place "Crime Scene" tape around the object and await a report from the forensics lab. Should I repeatedly chant "Please be made in Canada"?


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