17th century Amsterdam Folding Fork Spoon Combo

[legrandmogol]

Not sure I'll have much luck with this piece as the marks are only partially struck. The piece appears to have the hallmark for the city of Amsterdam and a date letter B as well as a partial makers mark that could be the top of a T or F inside a shield? The piece can be a fork or spoon or toothpick. Any assistance with this is greatly appreciated. Also if anyone knows what the mark in the shield means.

[oel]

Hi,

Certainly does look an impressive combo;silver traveling fork and spoon including toothpick !
The town mark although partly stuck indicates Amsterdam. The year letters used in Amsterdam are in a circular shield in this case not a B but perhaps the letter D. Replica's of folding fork with pseudo marks do exist. A clear image of the maker's mark is very useful. Please show us a clear image of the maker's mark.

Peter.

[legrandmogol]

well, I don't know if these are much better but they are at least different. only the top portion is fully struck. It is of course entirely possible that the piece is a much later reproduction as well. There is a lot of honest wear to the fork portion but the spoon bowl is a little too smooth for a 17th century spoon. Someone may have re-planished the bowl though which is why the marks are weak, the bowl is a little thin and where the scratch test would potentially be there is evidence of its possible aggressive removal. Also between the loops for the fork tines, the metal is still wavy and shows some of the hand hammering. Then again I could be grasping for straws.

[legrandmogol]

Peter, may I ask have you ever seen an Amsterdam city mark quite like this one? The crown on top of the crosses doesn't seem quite right. Also if this is a later reproduction they have definitely marked the piece to deceive. In my very limited experience with Dutch pseudo marks, there are usually too many marks or not enough marks or strange marks that don't belong together and or in the wrong spots. This spoon has roughly the right amount of marks, marks that do go together and are in the correct places.

[oel]

Yes you may ask. Indeed to me, the marks do not look 100 % correct for 17th century Amsterdam. However we are still looking and working at it. Will inform you in due time.


Peter.

[oel]

Just wondering and staring at this mark. Amsterdam year letter and town mark or ?


The third mark maker's mark or town mark or year letter or?


Still puzzling.Cheers,


Peter

[legrandmogol]

It is possible that I am looking at everything wrong. What else could they be?

[oel]

The marks are not clear. One mark points vaguely towards the town mark of Amsterdam, one mark looks like a B with is bottom in an oval, the third and partially struck mark, four legged animal(?) in shield, unknown. Without having the traveling set in hand it is hard to make a judgement.
NB. Many replica's are circulating.

Peter.


Gratitude: Dick Dekker

[legrandmogol]

oh, I guess the piece will have to remain a mystery for now. Thank you for your help Peter.