Dutch small sword

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
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mrcwgmn
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2024 7:27 am

Dutch small sword

Post by mrcwgmn »

Hi,

I have a Dutch small sword which I believe is from around 1808. I can't identify the maker's mark though. Anyone have any ideas?

Thanks,

Marco

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oel
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Re: Dutch small sword

Post by oel »

Hi Marco, welcome to the forum.

Decorative épée with silver hilt and leather sheath.
Hallmarks of the Kingdom of Holland introduced 1807-1812
https://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopi ... 300#p80300

The Assay office mark of Amsterdam, three Saint Andrew's Crosses in a vertical oval. Year letter script a, used 1807 and 1808. 10 for 10 Penningen for silver 833.33 fineness. Unfortunately the maker's mark is too unclear for me to decipher. Enhanced clear image of the mark may help. Can you describe the mark, letters or figure mark?


Peter.
mrcwgmn
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Joined: Sun May 19, 2024 7:27 am

Re: Dutch small sword

Post by mrcwgmn »

Hi Peter,

Thanks for your answer. I could manage to identify all except the makers mark. Someone told me it might be a Hendrik Smits and although I've seen similar marks from him i can't be sure. I feel a bit like a freeloader here joining only to ask this but I can't figure it out myself.

More pictures of the makers mark:

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In case you are interested I have a few more nice silver swords I can post here as a kind of thank you for your help.

Marco
oel
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Re: Dutch small sword

Post by oel »

Marco, you are welcome.

It could be AS for Andreas Schiotling, registered in Amsterdam 1792-1813, maker of small tableware and shopkeeper. 

Hendrik Smits, maker's mark HS, registered in Amsterdam 1798-1836,  productive large and small tableware maker, bread baskets, trays, tobacco jars. He also makes Catholic church silver; Between 1800 and 1825 he was one of the main suppliers of the silver shopkeeper Diemont.
We would love to see some more of your sword collection, if possible with the (hall)marks.
https://www.modemuze.nl/collecties/dege ... n-gevest-0

Source; W. Koonings De keuring van goud en zilver tijdens het Koninkrijk Holland. K.A. Citroen Amsterdamse zilversmeden en hun merken.

Peter
mrcwgmn
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Re: Dutch small sword

Post by mrcwgmn »

Thanks again. I think Andreas Schiotling is a good lead. Hendrik Smit would be great for me if it was supplied by Diemont it would be a great indicator it was supplied to the court. However do you know if Diemont would have marked it? I would think yes and he would mark every court delivery with his mark but this is where I lack the background knoledge regarding silver.

Any other ideas from you or anyone else are most welcome. The other swords I have (2) I will post in separate posts. I think I know what they are but open to any comments or ideas.
oel
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Re: Dutch small sword

Post by oel »

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Maker's mark B:N for Jan Buysen, retailer mark DIEMONT
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Maker's mark HS: for Hendrik Smits, retailers mark Diemont

Diemont sold a lot of other Amsterdam silversmiths work, carrying their maker's marks together with his retailers mark but he also imported silver from the UK and perhaps other countries. Diemont, active till 1821. In 1822 his son Jan Diemont (1793-1840) took over the shop under the name W. Diemont en Zoon.
mrcwgmn
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Re: Dutch small sword

Post by mrcwgmn »

I've seen a lot of silver marks from the period (by now). Most have pretty regular shapes (square or oval, etc) and Hendrik Smit is one of the few that has an irregular shape. I even think I can see one of the dots in the right top corner as his mark was HS: I'm also taking into account the workmanship on the sword. I'm told he at least is capable of making something like this. But it remains a mystery for now. I have some reason to believe this sword was used at the court. I read somewhere Diemont doesn't always sign their work. So Hendrik Smit might make sense. I am hoping someone here has seen it before and can help.
oel
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Re: Dutch small sword

Post by oel »

The deformed maker's mark on the hilt.
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Hendrik Smits, maker's mark used during guild period.
Hendrik Smits, maker's mark used period Kingdom Holland,1807-1812

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Andreas Schiotlling maker's marks used during guild period
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Andreas Schiotling maker's mark used period Kingdom of Holland, 1807-1812
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On 2nd thoughts Hendrik Smit could be your man.

Peter.
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