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Atlantia · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Sunny Devon

HI all,
Got this pair of buckles, and could really use some help on them as they are not really my area of collecting.
As you can see, one has lost the steel mech and has an old addition in the form of the the pin being replaced with a silver one. They are around 83mm long, so quite large.
Apart from that they are both rather nice. Any help on the hallmarks or any other info greatly appreciated.
The kings head looks like George 3 (1786 onwards mark) but was hoping someone might recognise the makers mark? Looks like 'MP' or something P anyway.
It's been suggested that the maker might be 'HP' Hampston & Prince?

Granmaa · Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject:

Looks like an Exeter lion. I don't know the maker, but I think I know who will...

buckler · Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2009 10:27 am Post subject:

I think I am supposed to be the one who will know the maker.
Oh dear !

First of all these are shoe buckles. The style is c1775, but the size is very much post 1780. This is borne out by the presence of the duty mark, and the marking on the bridge, rather than the back, of the frames. Doing "retro" styles wasa buckle thing, it happened a lot . Particularly in Scotland and Exeter.

I agree with Granmaa. The lion looks like Exeter, the "letterbox " lion .
The maker .
Oh dear.
Is the mark H pellet P ? or upside down (unusual on a bridge marked piece ) J pellet W ? Normally Ferris was the only man who made many buckles after 1790 .
I have very little on Exeter smiths - we need a Grimwade or Gill for Exeter - but neither initials seem to fit. Normally Ferris was the only man who made many buckles after 1790 .

Well there are those who will know, Mr G*a*a* H*d*e*, over to you !

Atlantia · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Sunny Devon

Wow, thank you both so much.
By a strange 'coincidence' these came from a lady near Exeter who said she inherited them from her grandmother.
Could you have a look at the 5th picture down, and see if you can make head or tail of the stamped mark which the silver replaced pin is going through?
Again, sincere thanks for the help.
Gene

Atlantia · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Sunny Devon

I take it nobody has any further info on these?
Its also been suggested to me that they may be York, and that the maker might be 'HP' Hampston & Prince?
Anyone?
:(

dognose · co-admin Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 2023 Location: England

Hi Gene,

During the partnership of Hampston and Prince only, they were known to use some seven different marks, yours is not one of them. To me the mark looks more likely to be 'J.W' as 'Buckler' suggested.

Many members are only occasional visitors, hopefully someone will read your post soon and supply some more information.

Trev.

Atlantia · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Sunny Devon

buckler · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:29 am Post subject:

It is just possible that the odd mark may well be another silversmiths marks that was erased when the buckles were either fnished off or retailed by the other marker. My wife is of the opinion that the mark may be that of William Pearce (Jackson p295 and 304 - where his dates are given as 1774 -1797 Plymouth )
Jacksons image does show that the final SW to NE stroke of the "W" is very thin, and this may not be visible on an old punch. Personally I disagree, but as my lunch might be jeapody.......
His mark has been seen on the image of a pair of sugar tongs, identified, almost certainly correctly as by Pearce

Granmaa · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 6:50 am Post subject:

Perhaps it could be Joseph Hick's mark upside down.
Compare to my photo below.

Miles

dognose · co-admin Joined: 29 Dec 2005 Posts: 2023 Location: England

Granmaa · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 10:35 am Post subject:

Thanks, Trev.

Here's an earlier Joseph Hicks mark upside down.

Miles

Atlantia · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Sunny Devon

Fantastic,
Thank you all very much!
I've put another little collage together to compare the lion and king

Atlantia · Joined: 13 Oct 2009 Posts: 8 Location: Sunny Devon

Are you all in agreement that the lion is Exeter?
With the 'dot' that appears between the two letters on my stamp, is it more likely its a high 'full stop' between J and H or part of a worn die forming a W?
If it is J.H, can anyone tell me anything about this maker?

Granmaa · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:36 pm Post subject:

I'm pretty certain that the lion is from Exeter. You won't find anything out by comparing the duty heads since they were all made in London and sent out to the various assay offices.
The dot on your mark is more likely a pellet rather than die damage.
Joseph Hicks is listed in Jacksons as having registered in 1780. He died in 1835 at which time he may still have been producing silver, though I haven't seen anything marked by him this late.
He was a prolific maker, particularly of spoons and tongs.

You might find this interesting:
http://www.925-1000.com/a_exeterlions.html

Miles