Edinburgh Makers' mark.

paulh · Post by **paulh** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:07 pm

Can someone help me out with this Edinburgh makers’ mark. I have some idea that it might be the Liverpool silversmith, John Sutter, during his time in Edinburgh, but I can find no record of him working with anyone else, nor can I find this mark ascribed to anyone.

Thanks,

Paul.

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paulh · Post by **paulh** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 1:08 pm

Did I say Edninburgh? Sorry!
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paulh · Post by **paulh** » Fri Mar 13, 2009 5:21 pm

Hello Mike

I did see the mark on that site. I was hoping that someone might have access to other resources, that I had not yet come across yet.

Thanks

Paul
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MCB · Post by **MCB** » Mon Mar 16, 2009 11:45 am

Hello Paul,
The Edinburgh office web site http://incorporationofgoldsmiths.co.uk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; doesn' seem to have an entry for either JS over WC or JS over WG so it looks as though the mark wasn't registered.
Regards,
The Other Mike
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Post by **dognose** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 3:00 am

Retailer overstrike?

Trev.
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MCB · Post by **MCB** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:58 am

Hello Trev,
An overstrike had occurred to me too but I couldn't fathom why the base line of the JS punch or the top line of the W(?) punch looks to be missing hence the mark on the spoon was made by one strike. Any thoughts?
Regards,
Mike
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Post by **dognose** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:28 am

Hi Mike,

I was thinking maybe, a retailer partnership, JS & W(?), one punch, not two.

Regards Trev.
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MCB · Post by **MCB** » Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:43 am

Thanks Trev. You'll agree though it's an odd shaped single punch.

Just to add a little spice there's brief mention on Edinburgh AO web site of Sutter (or Souter as he was also called) engaging in some forgery of marks involving a chap named Ashenheim and a retailer named Ash.
Sutter was apprenticed in 1815 registering his own Edinburgh mark in 1826 and last there in 1829. He subsequently registered at Newcastle in 1832 and Chester in 1839.
He certainly got around!

Mike
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Post by **dognose** » Wed Mar 18, 2009 5:07 am

Hi,

I'm not sure what Sutter was up to in Edinburgh, but it's interesting to note that his fellow apprentice was that old rascal, Alexander Dick. Dick left for Australia in the 1820's, paying his own passage, if he had stuck around a little longer, I suspect the government would have paid it for him!

Do you think that 'Ash' is a typo for 'Ashenheim'?

Trev.
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MCB · Post by **MCB** » Fri Mar 20, 2009 1:31 pm

Hello Trev,
I think you're right that Jacob Ashenheim was the retailer referred to by Edinburgh AO as Ash.
I've not been able to find out any more about Sutter's reported involvement in the false use of marks.
Regards,
Mike
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masimo · Post by **masimo** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 6:32 am

I am reseaching my family tree on my mothers side,and find my Great Grandfather was John Sutter i would be grateful for any infomation anyone to give me about him,Thank You.
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MCB · Post by **MCB** » Tue Nov 17, 2009 10:56 am

Hello and welcome to the Forum.
John Sutter gave the following addresses when registering as a silversmith at the Chester Assay Office:
1839 29 Standish Street
1843 8 Fleet Street
1857-60 12 Williamson Street
1868-74 College Lane
All addresses were in Liverpool.
No address is known for him in Edinburgh where he lived from 1815 at the latest to 1829 nor in Newcastle where he lived from 1832-33.
He is known to have also used the names Souter or Soutar when in Edinburgh. He was apprenticed from 1815 to a silversmith there named Charles Dalgleish.
Hope this helps.
Mike
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MCB · Post by **MCB** » Fri Feb 12, 2010 7:06 am

A tablespoon has just come to light showing that Sutter was submitting items to the Chester AO in 1835 rather than 1839 as first thought.

Mike
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