Pair of William V tablespoons

PHOTOS REQUIRED - marks + item
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rat-tail
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Location: Durban, South Africa

Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by rat-tail »

Hi All
Any help with the makers mark on these two George II tablespoons appreciated. The only mark that's readable is the maker's mark RH in script and the only mark that bears a resemblance in my copy of Jacksons is that of Robert Harrison of Dublin from a mark Jackson notes on a 1722 gravy spoon. A number of problems though. That's too early or was Mr Harrison working some 15 to 20 years later? The makers marks are followed by two squished marks that could be a crowned harp and hibernia but could also be a lion passant and crowned leopards head. The fourth mark Hibernia only coming into being on Irish silver in 1731. Then there's the date letter - it looks like a capital A in a round cartouche - I can not find anything that corresponds. Could it be English provincial? It's probably not Scottish. It can't be britannia standard as the maker's mark is surely wrong, besides it not looking right. I have shot the marks on both spoons. And yes, the marks are awful, but any thoughts appreciated - Thanks Frank

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the marks on one spoon from the bowl to finial
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on the other spoon
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dognose
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by dognose »

Hi Frank,

Not Irish, but Dutch. Roelof Helweg of Amsterdam.

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Born 10th December 1758. Died 10th September 1843.

Regards Trev.
rat-tail
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by rat-tail »

Many thanks Trev - appreciate the super speedy response - great pic of Mr Helweg - and quote a long working period.
Would The capital A be for 1835 presumably or could these be 18th century pre Napoleonic marking spoons?
Thanks Frank
dognose
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by dognose »

Perhaps 1785, but it will need Oel or another member to confirm/deny.

Trev.
oel
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by oel »

At your service to confirm;

RH maker’s mark for; Roelof Helweg, mark used 1778-1812, Guild mark for the city of Amsterdam (3 Andreas crosses Crowned), Crowned Lion Rampant being the province standard mark; 1 st standard for minimum of around 944/1000 or 94,4% pure silver.
Amsterdam date letter (probably); A for the year 1785


Oel
rat-tail
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by rat-tail »

Many thanks OEL.
It's great to have my first pieces of 18th century Dutch silver. And to think these probably came to the Cape before the British arrived.
Now that you point it out, the crowned lion rampant is obvious.
Appreciate you sharing your knowledge.
Regards Frank
dognose
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by dognose »

Hi Frank,

This short film may be of interest: https://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=70392" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

This is probably the last images of the Helweg workshops prior to their closure in 1965. The methods used have very likely changed little since your spoons were made. The gentlemen in the film are the last of the silversmithing Helwegs, Hendrik Roelof Carel Helweg jnr and his his brother Carl Hendrik Helweg.

Regards Trev.
oel
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Re: Pair of William V tablespoons

Post by oel »

Hi All,

For your information a small history of known facts have been made about the Helweg’s
For more information browse; http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=28590" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Regards,

Oel
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