Hi, I would like to know if anyone has a reference to identify these marks? they are on the bottom of this container. It looks as tho it was made in Amsterdam or Zwolle?
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... marks1.jpg
http://i1224.photobucket.com/albums/ee3 ... tainer.jpg
(admin photo edit - images too large - link only - see Posting Requirements )
marks on dutch Container?
Re: marks on dutch Container?
Hi katt224,
The four big marks are all pseudo marks. The maker’s mark looks like; AH above 1, in a square for; Alle de Haas also known as Firm A. de Haas, registered in the city of Sneek during 1877/1966. The Lion Passant above 2, the standard mark for .833 silver fineness with the export key; mark to indicate 2/3 marking duty restitution upon export. Export key mark used 1853-1953.
I believe if you look carefully you should find a date letter somewhere on the object.
Regards,
Oel
The four big marks are all pseudo marks. The maker’s mark looks like; AH above 1, in a square for; Alle de Haas also known as Firm A. de Haas, registered in the city of Sneek during 1877/1966. The Lion Passant above 2, the standard mark for .833 silver fineness with the export key; mark to indicate 2/3 marking duty restitution upon export. Export key mark used 1853-1953.
I believe if you look carefully you should find a date letter somewhere on the object.
Regards,
Oel
Re: marks on dutch Container?
I believe the object was made in the 1700's.....it looks as tho the maker's mark is AH over T. Would there be a maker from that era for these initials? What is the purpose of pseudo marks? Did all countries use them? I have heard of them in regard to American silver but not sure of other regions. According to the link on this site to dutch marks, the first mark is from Amsterdam and the last is L which seems to be the date mark.
Re: marks on dutch Container?
Hi,
You are free to believe what ever you like!
The four big marks are pseudo or fake marks, to fool people into believing they are looking at ‘old’ silver marks, put on before the year 1807, just like you do. Your four fake marks;
1.) Fake Amsterdam city mark. 2.) Fake maker’s mark. 3.) Fake city mark for Zwolle, city in the Dutch province called Overijssel. Please ask your self why should there be two city marks? 4.) Fake year letter L.
Fake/Pseudo marks were/are used in many countries.
Your container is made in the Netherlands around the turn of the 20th century and could be around 100 year’s old. Your container is made by a good silver smith called Alle de Haas working in the Frisian city called Sneek. Please examine the container and look for a little date-letter and little Minerva head (Regional Assay Office mark)
Oel
You are free to believe what ever you like!
The four big marks are pseudo or fake marks, to fool people into believing they are looking at ‘old’ silver marks, put on before the year 1807, just like you do. Your four fake marks;
1.) Fake Amsterdam city mark. 2.) Fake maker’s mark. 3.) Fake city mark for Zwolle, city in the Dutch province called Overijssel. Please ask your self why should there be two city marks? 4.) Fake year letter L.
Fake/Pseudo marks were/are used in many countries.
Your container is made in the Netherlands around the turn of the 20th century and could be around 100 year’s old. Your container is made by a good silver smith called Alle de Haas working in the Frisian city called Sneek. Please examine the container and look for a little date-letter and little Minerva head (Regional Assay Office mark)
Oel
Re: marks on dutch Container?
Thanks, appreciate your help....The date mark is a ornate L which would be 1895. Seems strange that good silversmiths would want to produce fake marks....could you elaborate on the thinking in that era?
Re: marks on dutch Container?
Hi katt224
You are welcome. Congratulations, you found the date letter. If you give the container another thorough look you should find the Minerva head (= Assay Office mark) with the regional assay office letter F, in its helmet, for Leeuwarden the capital city of Friesland.
During the late 19th century and early 20th century there has been a big demand for antique silver or silver with old Guild marks, not only in Europe Mainland but also in the UK and in the United States of America. Silver smith’s and traders were eager to supply. As like today, imported antique items, compared to modern imported items, are paying a reduced import duty fee. Dutch and German silver smiths were famous for applying some extra pseudo marks, to impress the general public and perhaps fool customs. Luckily most of the Dutch items with pseudo marks are with genuine Dutch hall marks and/or foreign import marks of the correct time period in which the item has been made. Although not always, if so we do not know the standard/fineness of the silver and could well be below any legal standard.
Hanau in Germany has been famous for very good quality silver and of legal standards, bearing only pseudo marks. Most of the famous Hanau pseudo marks are known and described. For more information see;
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
Nothing has changed. Today’s fakes, due to the high prices paid for Imperial Russian silver and silver with the old Guild marks and/or made by famous (British, Russian, Dutch, French) silver smiths, are produced in China / India and other countries. The fakes are offered at internet auction sites and well known auction houses, for high prices.
Regards,
Oel
You are welcome. Congratulations, you found the date letter. If you give the container another thorough look you should find the Minerva head (= Assay Office mark) with the regional assay office letter F, in its helmet, for Leeuwarden the capital city of Friesland.
During the late 19th century and early 20th century there has been a big demand for antique silver or silver with old Guild marks, not only in Europe Mainland but also in the UK and in the United States of America. Silver smith’s and traders were eager to supply. As like today, imported antique items, compared to modern imported items, are paying a reduced import duty fee. Dutch and German silver smiths were famous for applying some extra pseudo marks, to impress the general public and perhaps fool customs. Luckily most of the Dutch items with pseudo marks are with genuine Dutch hall marks and/or foreign import marks of the correct time period in which the item has been made. Although not always, if so we do not know the standard/fineness of the silver and could well be below any legal standard.
Hanau in Germany has been famous for very good quality silver and of legal standards, bearing only pseudo marks. Most of the famous Hanau pseudo marks are known and described. For more information see;
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;"
Nothing has changed. Today’s fakes, due to the high prices paid for Imperial Russian silver and silver with the old Guild marks and/or made by famous (British, Russian, Dutch, French) silver smiths, are produced in China / India and other countries. The fakes are offered at internet auction sites and well known auction houses, for high prices.
Regards,
Oel