84 Spoon help with ID

[GrayT]

Hello

Can anyone help with identifying this 84 spoon please. It is 120 mm (5 ins) in length.
Thanks

[Mart]

Hello! Not a very simple case. If I had seen this spoon without stamps, I would have said that it was a good silver product. There is a Russian proverb written on it. It roughly means that if there is bread in the family, then even under a tree there can be heaven. The full version says that if there is no bread, then there is no fun in the big house.
If I saw only the marks alone, I would say that they raise some doubts. The fact is that around this period, state stamps were often not made very carefully. The double strike of the assayer can be seen on the spoon.
The spoon was made in Moscow in 1880 in the workshop of the silversmith "IЗ". I am more inclined to believe that your spoon is a genuine product.

[Qrt.S]

I3 (Latin IZ) is most likely Ivan Zaharov active in Moscow 1856-1896. The assayers punch is smudge....

[GrayT]

Thanks very much Mart for the Russian proverb, I had a go translating it from Cyrillic but no chance.

Thanks Qrt.s for identifying the makers mark. I take it the assayers mark is unreadable then. At 5" it seems too long for a tea spoon, would this be a soup or serving spoon

Cheers

[Mart]

The full text of the proverb is as follows: If there is not a piece of bread, then there is melancholy in the mansion. IF THERE IS A LAND OF BREAD, THEN THERE IS PARADISE UNDER THE SPRUCE. ("ХЛЕБА КРАЙ- И ПОД ЕЛЬЮ РАЙ")
Ivan Zakharov worked until 1889, his sons continued the business. His mark is “ИЗ” and he mainly made frames for icons. Silversmith Israel Eselev Zakhoder also worked in Moscow at that time. His marks were "ИЗ" "ИЕЗ".
It is still difficult to say with confidence about the “IЗ” mark, because there are very few products from this period. Presumably this is Ivan Zaitsev or Joseph Zakhoder.
The "AK" assayer is Alexander Kudrin.
The spoon will be for what exactly you want to eat with this spoon))).

[GrayT]

Mart... Thank you for sharing your knowledge, it's very interesting. It actually belongs to a friend who found it at the back of the spoon drawer, a great aunt gave it to him years ago and he forgot all about it. I'm glad you solved the inscription as being the proverb.

Cheers

[GrayT]

ps... is the notch at the back of the 3 of any significance.

[Qrt.S]

Ivan Zaharov made a lot of things and several different punches were used: ИЗ, ИВЗ, И.З., IЗ, I.З ... All in all, it is difficult to say with certainty who this is. Anyway, in my opinion both Zakhoder and Zaitsev can be skipped. Their mark was ИЗ, but not IЗ what we have here. Anyway this is a tricky case and there might be other alternatives. Not all masters are known to name......yet.

@GrayT
Mind my asking what notch? 3 is the Cyrillic letter corresponding Z in the Latin alphabet.

[Mart]

Zakharov's brands in the 19th century are: "ИЗ", "ИВЗСя", "ФАБРИКА И.В.Захарова с-ья"
The brands of the Zahoder family: "ИЗ", "ИЕЗ", "ЗЗ", "ЗЕЗ", "ИЗЗ", ("IЗ"?)
Joseph (not Israel) Zahoder () initials in Russian: (Iосиф Заходер), "IЗ"(?)
Ivan Zaitsev: they (there were two silversmiths) used initials in Russian "IЗ".

[Qrt.S]

Correct, but Postnikova mentions also i3 and i.3. see page 218 #2555 (and #2556). Well Postnikova contains some errors but, but... As said a tricky case. No guarantees given.

[GrayT]

The 13 is upside down in relation to the assayers mark. The other way it looks like EI. This is what the makers mark looks like under the magnifying glass, There is a notch after the 3.