I have this navette shaped box with very odd marks. Is anyone able to help decipher where it is from and who it might be by? Thinking Scandinvian or Dutch...?
Thanks!
Help with silver marks
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manameswill
- Posts: 4
- Joined: Thu Oct 17, 2024 4:39 am
Help with silver marks
Hello,
I have this navette shaped box with very odd marks. Is anyone able to help decipher where it is from and who it might be by? Thinking Scandinvian or Dutch...?
Thanks!
I have this navette shaped box with very odd marks. Is anyone able to help decipher where it is from and who it might be by? Thinking Scandinvian or Dutch...?
Thanks!
Re: Help with silver marks
Hi,
These are Dutch marks.
See Hallmarks of the Kingdom of Holland introduced 1807-1812
viewtopic.php?p=80300#p80300
Top to bottom;
.1) Silver fineness 10 penningen or 833/1000
.2) Year letter C used in 1810
.3) The maker's mark 'a hand' for Arnoldus van den Berg, registered in Schoonhoven , 1803-1807 and registered in Utrecht, 1810-1811 (according Karel Citroen*)
.4) Assay Office mark for the city of Utrecht.
Arnoldus van den Berg(h) took the oath as a silversmith in Schoonhoven on 17 March 1804 and used ‘a hand’ as a master mark. He became an apprentice of Gerrit Swaantjes the Younger in 1786. He left for Oudewater on 30 March 1804 where he married Aafje Koning. Oudewater fell under the Gildekeurkamer/Assay office of Schoonhoven and later under the Keurkamer of the Kingdom of Holland in Schoonhoven. He never paid a patent in Schoonhoven; he probably did so in Oudewater, where we find him in 1807 at the very least. We note 1804 as the year of commencement for him.
Rene Kappers; https://historischeverenigingschoonhove ... Regels.pdf
It must be said that there is no proof that Arnoldus was registered as a silversmith in Utrecht in 1810-1812. As mentioned, the silversmiths of Oudewater fell under Schoonhoven. In 1812, when registering the birth of his child in Oudewater his occupation was stated as Tapper = Seller of beer, spirits and wine.
The maker's mark
It looks like an open spread hand.
Peter.
Source ; *Karel Citroen, Dutch goldsmiths and silversmiths marks and names prior to 1812, page 141
Waarborgholland, ˜Netherlands' Responsibility Marks since 1797.
These are Dutch marks.
See Hallmarks of the Kingdom of Holland introduced 1807-1812
viewtopic.php?p=80300#p80300
Top to bottom;
.1) Silver fineness 10 penningen or 833/1000
.2) Year letter C used in 1810
.3) The maker's mark 'a hand' for Arnoldus van den Berg, registered in Schoonhoven , 1803-1807 and registered in Utrecht, 1810-1811 (according Karel Citroen*)
.4) Assay Office mark for the city of Utrecht.
Arnoldus van den Berg(h) took the oath as a silversmith in Schoonhoven on 17 March 1804 and used ‘a hand’ as a master mark. He became an apprentice of Gerrit Swaantjes the Younger in 1786. He left for Oudewater on 30 March 1804 where he married Aafje Koning. Oudewater fell under the Gildekeurkamer/Assay office of Schoonhoven and later under the Keurkamer of the Kingdom of Holland in Schoonhoven. He never paid a patent in Schoonhoven; he probably did so in Oudewater, where we find him in 1807 at the very least. We note 1804 as the year of commencement for him.
Rene Kappers; https://historischeverenigingschoonhove ... Regels.pdf
It must be said that there is no proof that Arnoldus was registered as a silversmith in Utrecht in 1810-1812. As mentioned, the silversmiths of Oudewater fell under Schoonhoven. In 1812, when registering the birth of his child in Oudewater his occupation was stated as Tapper = Seller of beer, spirits and wine.
The maker's mark
It looks like an open spread hand.
Peter.
Source ; *Karel Citroen, Dutch goldsmiths and silversmiths marks and names prior to 1812, page 141
Waarborgholland, ˜Netherlands' Responsibility Marks since 1797.
Re: Help with silver marks
I received the following information via Rene Kappers from Janjaap Luijt;
In NA, archief ess. gen.:22.04.1811:
Er waren drie zilverwerken door de adv. fiscaal van Groningen ingezonden waarbij een snuifdoos het deksel Utrechtse keur 1809 en de bodem een gekroonde O. De minister vindt het probleem van het zilveren doosje het ergst, aangezien de stempelsnijders hebben verklaard dat de tekens deugen. Het doosje was door Veersma gekocht van een Hollandsche koopman. Het aangetroffen meesterteken, een hand, was dat van A. van den Berg te Oudewater.
en
06.06.1811: Dossier over een snuifdoosje dat niet voldeed, met de opdracht naar de maker van het ding te inquireren en te dienen van rapport. De Advocaat-fiscaal van de Zuiderzee heeft onderzoek gedaan naar het meesterteken dat van A. van den Bergh zou moeten zijn. Hij is daartoe naar Oudewater getogen en heeft gezien dat A. van den Bergh niet in staat is dergelijke snuifdozen te maken en dat het meesterteken van A. van den Bergh slechts één vinger toont en niet een uitgestrekte hand.
Translates to:
In National Archives, archive ess. gen.:
22.04.1811: Three silver works were submitted by the adv. fiscal of Groningen, of which a snuff box had in the lid Utrecht hallmark of 1809 and the bottom a crowned O. The minister finds the problem of the silver box the worst, since the stamp cutters (punch makers/engravers) have declared that the marks are correct. The box was bought by Veersma from a Dutch merchant. The found master mark, a hand, was that of A. van den Berg in Oudewater.
and
06.06.1811: Dossier about a snuff box that did not meet the requirements, with the instruction to inquire about the maker of the thing and to submit a report. The Attorney-tax of the Zuiderzee has investigated the master mark that should be of A. van den Bergh. He went to Oudewater for that purpose and saw that A. van den Bergh is not capable of making such snuff boxes and that the master mark of A. van den Bergh shows only one finger and not an outstretched hand.
The maker's mark below is not of Arnoldus van den Berg(h)
It remains to be seen who it belongs to.
Peter.
Source and gratitude;
Rene Kappers, Historian (editor-in-chief and board member Zilver Histograaf Schoonhoven), Janjaap Luijt, Historical research and publisher (i.a. author Het Zilver Lexicon) and expert Utrecht silver and their silversmiths.
https://kunsthistorici.ning.com/profile/JanjaapLuijt
https://www.goudenzilversmidsgilde.nl/rene-kappers/
In NA, archief ess. gen.:22.04.1811:
Er waren drie zilverwerken door de adv. fiscaal van Groningen ingezonden waarbij een snuifdoos het deksel Utrechtse keur 1809 en de bodem een gekroonde O. De minister vindt het probleem van het zilveren doosje het ergst, aangezien de stempelsnijders hebben verklaard dat de tekens deugen. Het doosje was door Veersma gekocht van een Hollandsche koopman. Het aangetroffen meesterteken, een hand, was dat van A. van den Berg te Oudewater.
en
06.06.1811: Dossier over een snuifdoosje dat niet voldeed, met de opdracht naar de maker van het ding te inquireren en te dienen van rapport. De Advocaat-fiscaal van de Zuiderzee heeft onderzoek gedaan naar het meesterteken dat van A. van den Bergh zou moeten zijn. Hij is daartoe naar Oudewater getogen en heeft gezien dat A. van den Bergh niet in staat is dergelijke snuifdozen te maken en dat het meesterteken van A. van den Bergh slechts één vinger toont en niet een uitgestrekte hand.
Translates to:
In National Archives, archive ess. gen.:
22.04.1811: Three silver works were submitted by the adv. fiscal of Groningen, of which a snuff box had in the lid Utrecht hallmark of 1809 and the bottom a crowned O. The minister finds the problem of the silver box the worst, since the stamp cutters (punch makers/engravers) have declared that the marks are correct. The box was bought by Veersma from a Dutch merchant. The found master mark, a hand, was that of A. van den Berg in Oudewater.
and
06.06.1811: Dossier about a snuff box that did not meet the requirements, with the instruction to inquire about the maker of the thing and to submit a report. The Attorney-tax of the Zuiderzee has investigated the master mark that should be of A. van den Bergh. He went to Oudewater for that purpose and saw that A. van den Bergh is not capable of making such snuff boxes and that the master mark of A. van den Bergh shows only one finger and not an outstretched hand.
The maker's mark below is not of Arnoldus van den Berg(h)
It remains to be seen who it belongs to.
Peter.
Source and gratitude;
Rene Kappers, Historian (editor-in-chief and board member Zilver Histograaf Schoonhoven), Janjaap Luijt, Historical research and publisher (i.a. author Het Zilver Lexicon) and expert Utrecht silver and their silversmiths.
https://kunsthistorici.ning.com/profile/JanjaapLuijt
https://www.goudenzilversmidsgilde.nl/rene-kappers/
Re: Help with silver marks
The following information I received from Janjaap Luijt
It is true that during the Kingdom of Holland, Oudewater fell under Schoonhoven according to the state division for the assaying of gold and silver. But because the Schoonhoven assay office had committed fraud in the years 1807-1808 (as had some other assay offices), it was 'temporarily' closed in 1809 and the silver & goldsmiths who fell under Schoonhoven had to have their work assayed in Utrecht. The temporary nature eventually became permanent. And that lasted until 1837. The closure of Schoonhoven took place at the same time as the introduction of the year letter 'b' (the punches were ready in January, but it took until March/April 1809 before they were used for the first time).
In short, all works with Utrecht marks from 1809-1812 can therefore also come from Schoonhoven and the surrounding area (Woerden, Oudewater, IJsselstein).
What we know now;
Arnoldus van den Berg(h) master's mark a hand showing one finger, we also read that Arnoldus was a small worker who could not make tobacco boxes.
Given the above information we can now continue our search in Schoonhoven because we do not know of an Utrecht silversmith with a master's mark of an open hand. We know of an open hand mark for the Schoonhoven silversmith Adrianus Kooijman, registered in Schoonhoven 1807
The book Zilversmeden van de Stad Schoonhoven door S. A. C Begeer, E. Hak & L. Linhart-du Cloux shows the following shoot mark;
For Adrianus Kooijman, baptized 1-10-1780, parents Andries Graves Kooijman (silversmith) and Engelina van Dam. Adrianus started in 1807 and died 29-8-1840.The mark of an open hand he used, 1807-1812. On 8-3-1812 maker's mark AK under a star, in diamond/lozenge till 30-4-1814, when it changed into AK under star in a square. Well known maker of snuff, tobacco and pill boxes.
Maker's mark an open hand for Adrianus Kooijman, assay office Utrecht, year letter C for 1810
Peter.
Source; S. A. C Begeer, E. Hak & L. Linhart-du Cloux Zilversmeden van de Stad Schoonhoven. Janjaap Luijt Historical research and publisher
It is true that during the Kingdom of Holland, Oudewater fell under Schoonhoven according to the state division for the assaying of gold and silver. But because the Schoonhoven assay office had committed fraud in the years 1807-1808 (as had some other assay offices), it was 'temporarily' closed in 1809 and the silver & goldsmiths who fell under Schoonhoven had to have their work assayed in Utrecht. The temporary nature eventually became permanent. And that lasted until 1837. The closure of Schoonhoven took place at the same time as the introduction of the year letter 'b' (the punches were ready in January, but it took until March/April 1809 before they were used for the first time).
In short, all works with Utrecht marks from 1809-1812 can therefore also come from Schoonhoven and the surrounding area (Woerden, Oudewater, IJsselstein).
What we know now;
Arnoldus van den Berg(h) master's mark a hand showing one finger, we also read that Arnoldus was a small worker who could not make tobacco boxes.
Given the above information we can now continue our search in Schoonhoven because we do not know of an Utrecht silversmith with a master's mark of an open hand. We know of an open hand mark for the Schoonhoven silversmith Adrianus Kooijman, registered in Schoonhoven 1807
The book Zilversmeden van de Stad Schoonhoven door S. A. C Begeer, E. Hak & L. Linhart-du Cloux shows the following shoot mark;
For Adrianus Kooijman, baptized 1-10-1780, parents Andries Graves Kooijman (silversmith) and Engelina van Dam. Adrianus started in 1807 and died 29-8-1840.The mark of an open hand he used, 1807-1812. On 8-3-1812 maker's mark AK under a star, in diamond/lozenge till 30-4-1814, when it changed into AK under star in a square. Well known maker of snuff, tobacco and pill boxes.
Maker's mark an open hand for Adrianus Kooijman, assay office Utrecht, year letter C for 1810
Peter.
Source; S. A. C Begeer, E. Hak & L. Linhart-du Cloux Zilversmeden van de Stad Schoonhoven. Janjaap Luijt Historical research and publisher