Oval Silver Gallery Tray - have spent hours trying to work out the marks - please help!

[afishe74]

Double stamped to the base at random orientaions with the same mark

weighs around 2kg

I am pretty damn sure it is solid silver (tests good throughout, feel, experience)

The construction is ornate and fine on the top and sides but a little crude underneath. The base looks to have been hammered flat on the bottom (but the top surface is perfectly flat). The edges where the sides are attached to the base look very hand done - fine work but definitely by hand - a rolled over hammered edge. It does not look like any modern european construction I have seen. the design from the top looks european but the construction looks more asian or arabic?

I REALLY want to work out what those marks are - it is hugely bugging me!

Please help!

[Aguest]

:::: There were Italian companies specializing in the "antique style" which made silver objects in the 20th century with pseudo-hallmarks which are similar enough to your hallmarks to warrant an investigation into certain Italian makers who specialized in the "antique style" ::::::::::

[afishe74]

:::: There were Italian companies specializing in the "antique style" which made silver objects in the 20th century with pseudo-hallmarks which are similar enough to your hallmarks to warrant an investigation into certain Italian makers who specialized in the "antique style" ::::::::::

thanks. I have been down an italian silver rabbit hole but I still cant find anything similar in terms of the marks. Do you have a makers name in mind?

[Aguest]

:::::: It's hard for me to say without seeing a very similar tray in construction, or maybe another object very similarly constructed, possibly Jacomino Ciro but that is really a wild guess. ::::::::

:::::: All I can tell you additionally is that the handles definitely look cast, and the entire object really does look cast, at least to my eye. ::::::::::

::::::: There's an article archived on the internet about "forgery in Italian silver" but I don't have any of the other resources/books about these 20th century Italian silver makers who were making objects in a more antiquated style and using pseudo-hallmarks that are kind of imitative of older European silver hallmarks. ::::::::::

[amena]

I've collected many marks and pseudo-marks by Ciro Jacomino, but these are completely new to me.
That doesn't mean they can't be.
However, I'd be more encouraged to research if you could explain in detail the phrase "I am pretty damn sure it is solid silver (tests good throughout, feel, experience)"

[afishe74]

hey. thanks for any pointers. it really has me stumped. i keep searching!

in terms of being sure it is silver - I am an auctioneer - I handle hundreds of KG of silver a year so mainly it is a 'feel' thing but also I have tested with acid and a strong magnet that does the soft damped 'slide' thing down the surface but does not attract when static. I filed down a small bit inside of the handle and it is not plated and the material filed off from under the surface tests the same as the surface. I am 99% sure it is silver. There is always a chance I am wrong but I dont think so really

The construction is interesting. The base is a separate piece from the sides - an oval that looks to have been hammered on the underside but is glass flat on the top. It has 2 straight scribe marks in the on the underside in the form of a cross that were likely used to identify the centre for marking it out for cutting. This is sat on the gallery sides with the edged of the gallery side hammered over the base to hold it. The handles do look cast and are attached by a small piece of the handle protruding through the gallery edge and then being peened over like a rivet. The gallery sides look to have been cut and pierced from a flat sheet but there are 'flower' style decorations around it that are separate cast pieces that have been secured to the sides by having a small pin hammered like a rivet which is part of the cast flower shape. Some of them are a little loose.

The construction is both fine and crude in a way - kind of more like some asian or arabic silver I have seen. But the design looks european?

It is just really bugging me! Happy to post more specific photos if you think it would help. I would really like to be able to identify it to satisfy my own curiosity and also so it can be sold with a correct description. Without being able to positively identify it - the sad reality is that it will likely end up being melted down as the economics of silver at auction these days mean that unless it is confirmed as 'special' in some way - the melt value (2kg+) is likely to mean thats where it ends up. Which is a shame

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[amena]

I have tested with acid and a strong magnet that does the soft damped 'slide' thing down the surface but does not attract when static. I filed down a small bit inside of the handle and it is not plated and the material filed off from under the surface tests the same as the surface.

this is much more convincing

[amena]

I won't say anything about the German silver medal; there are members who are much more competent than me.

[amena]

I won't say anything about the German silver tankard; there are members who are much more competent than me.

[Aguest]

::::: I have a fully cast candy dish with known Hanau silver marks and the bottom of the dish has a mirror sheen like this galley tray. ::::::

:::::: Hanau Silver does have a tradition of "crown-over-letter" pseudo-hallmarks so I was thinking that to be a possibility as well, but the comments about the construction of the object have me thinking that I have not seen anything with this construction technique from Hanau. ::::::::::::::

:::::::: Italy maybe? Hanau Silver maybe? :::::::: Maybe we will find something similar? :::::::::::::