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Hello to all,

I´m new to this forum and for start I want to thank you for all the information you are supplying here on these boards and on the website.
I´ve been reading a lot but I cannot identify the marks on the follwing item.
Could you please help and advise.
This is a bowl with an old coin in the stand. The coin is from Salzburg, with 2 bishops, dated 1668.

The mark with crowned lion made me think this bowl was dutch, and the mark on the left looks like a crowned N (Nijmegen?).
The mark on the right hand side I cannot identify at all.
Thank you for your help and please be patient with me, I am not a silver collector and English is not my first language.

Good morning. When you start seeing too many crowned marks, a good bet is to look at the Hanau Psuedo-marks subsection of German marks. Scrolling down to Unattributed marks, your set appears in the left column referred to as "probably crowned L": http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

Hi,
Welcome to the forum.
I think the set of marks belongs to Hanau pseudo marks, but cannot attribute them to any particular maker.
For unidentified crowned ``L``and crowned lion see here (scroll down):
http://www.925-1000.com/Fgerman_hanau_marks_01.html

Regards

Thank you both for your answers.
I see, I was reading through the Pseudo-Mark section already but I missed this one out.
I wondered anyway why even companies with a good reputation were using these marks, like Schleissner and Neresheimer for example.
This bowl is beautifully made, nice workmanship and the coin itself is worth quite a bit, where is the point of "brushing this up" by using some strange Pseudo-Marks..??

Thank you again for your help and your prompt replies. :)

Demand for ``antique`` silver dictated pseudo and fantasy marks. Difficult to say if this was done with a clear intent to deceive.

I think the marks are safely attributable to Gebr. Dingeldein of Hanau, which was founded by brothers Friedrich Otto (ca. 1838-1901) and Freidrich Wilhelm (ca. 1838-1910) Dingeldein. Friedrich Otto's son August Ernst Dingeldein (1874-1962) was their successor, and married Margarethe Kurz (1876-1947), the daughter of Karl Kurz (1851-1936), which is how the Dingeldein and Kurz companies came to be merged. He did open a New York showroom assisted by his sons Karl August (1901-1965) and Otto Friedrich (1906-1991) Dingeldein, both of whom moved to America permanently in 1927, where they became prominent silversmiths in New Orleans, Louisiana and Cape Girardeau, Missouri, respectively. (Their father joined them to reside in the US after their mother’s death.)

Karl August Dingeldein’s son Carl A. Dengel (who shortened the family name) gave the family silversmithing tools that remained with his father to the Historic New Orleans Collection in 2007. Among them are some sixteen so-called “18th Century French and Austrian Hallmark Punches”. New Orleans master silversmith Ellis Joubert III (who sadly died in late 2016) was given permission to strike these punches, and he graciously allowed me to photograph them.



As you can see, all three of your marks are in the Dingeldein collection: the “crowned L” (top row center, inverted), the “crowned N” (second row left) and the “crowned rampant lion” (second row center). The latter -and the ones to its right - were evidently variations of the Dingeldein trademark used in the 1920s as noted by Scheffler in Goldschmiede Hessens and confirmed by the 1925 Deutscher Goldschmiede-Kaldender.



I think this may well be a unique example of actual surviving punches for Hanau pseudo-marks.

Hope this helps!

Hi blakstone, many thanks for sharing this with us ! Regards, Bahner

@blakstone,
thank you so much for your detailed explanations.
I 've seen the Dingeldein brothers already mentioned in the Hanau Pseudo-mark section.
Very interesting that a part of the family went to the States.

My bowl was definitely produced here, I am living in Germany.
If you are absolutely convinced that this mark belongs to Dingeldein und if it would be of interest for anybody else the admin of this forum can add the marks of my bowl to the Hanau pseudo-mark list, if wanted.

very interestin blakstone

then this are also hanau pseudomarks of Dingeldein




http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35659