Help needed to identify this strange combination of hallmarks, I can recognize dutch marks and also suspecting that "wild boar" mark could be portuguese one, but not sure ??? ...
Any help would be appreciated!
With Respect
Unknown combination of hallmarks
Unknown combination of hallmarks
Dear Friends,
Help needed to identify this strange combination of hallmarks, I can recognize dutch marks and also suspecting that "wild boar" mark could be portuguese one, but not sure ??? ...
Any help would be appreciated!
With Respect
Help needed to identify this strange combination of hallmarks, I can recognize dutch marks and also suspecting that "wild boar" mark could be portuguese one, but not sure ??? ...
Any help would be appreciated!
With Respect
-
silverport
- contributor
- Posts: 870
- Joined: Tue Jun 30, 2009 7:18 pm
- Location: Portugal
Re: Unknown combination of hallmarks
I don't "see" a Portuguese "wild boar" mark - maybe I'm blind?
Hello »vadmaster«
I request you kindly to let me know where these marks are struck.
Are all here shown marks struck on each piece? Are all marks struck on the back side of the stems? Or maybe some marks on the back side — and the other on the front side? Or maybe some marks are struck on the left side of the stem — and the other on the right side? Are some of these marks precise on the other side of a struck mark?
Yours first photo of the marks seems to be a clipping; the in parts visible mark on the left side seems to be the »HR.«-mark (shown also in the last photo). But what kind of mark is the right one? A capital letter »D« or what?
The mark in the rectangle, shown in the second photo of the marks, has that mark an antipode?
Is the mark shown in yours third photo of marks maybe an antipode — if yes, which one is their antipode?
The animal shown in the first photo of the marks seems to me not to be congruent to that of the last photo of marks: In the first one more natural, like a cow or a bull; in the last one some thing abstract, maybe a fox or a weasel?
You state that » I can recognize dutch marks «, so you know the significations of the Dutch marks, shown in the fourth photo?
You » are suspecting that "wild boar" mark could be portuguese one, but not sure « - sorry, I don’t “see” any Portuguese “wild boar”.
My knowledge of Dutch Assay marks is based on long time ago published Dutch books only, but not on recent ones:
The script letter »I« marks signification is there described as to be struck on »Country internal products« only; and came in force from 1 January 1906 until 31 August 1953.
But the »Z II« mark (silver alloy of at least .835 but below .925) came in force then after, on 1 September 1953.
Also the twice time struck maker’s mark »HR.« seems to be of an elder Dutch phase of time — Utrecht area? Groningen area? …
Under these circumstances it seems to me, that this is a question for the more knowledgeable and specialised Dutch contributors.
But also they need to know, where and how often the shown marks are struck — so, please let’s know more.
It’s helpful too, to know the dimensions and weight per piece — economic circumstances were there also relevant; especially also in the Napoleonic period.
In advance I thank you for yours comprehension and future cooperation (do never forget, to add dimensions to yours future questions)!
Kind regards silverport
Hello »vadmaster«
I request you kindly to let me know where these marks are struck.
Are all here shown marks struck on each piece? Are all marks struck on the back side of the stems? Or maybe some marks on the back side — and the other on the front side? Or maybe some marks are struck on the left side of the stem — and the other on the right side? Are some of these marks precise on the other side of a struck mark?
Yours first photo of the marks seems to be a clipping; the in parts visible mark on the left side seems to be the »HR.«-mark (shown also in the last photo). But what kind of mark is the right one? A capital letter »D« or what?
The mark in the rectangle, shown in the second photo of the marks, has that mark an antipode?
Is the mark shown in yours third photo of marks maybe an antipode — if yes, which one is their antipode?
The animal shown in the first photo of the marks seems to me not to be congruent to that of the last photo of marks: In the first one more natural, like a cow or a bull; in the last one some thing abstract, maybe a fox or a weasel?
You state that » I can recognize dutch marks «, so you know the significations of the Dutch marks, shown in the fourth photo?
You » are suspecting that "wild boar" mark could be portuguese one, but not sure « - sorry, I don’t “see” any Portuguese “wild boar”.
My knowledge of Dutch Assay marks is based on long time ago published Dutch books only, but not on recent ones:
The script letter »I« marks signification is there described as to be struck on »Country internal products« only; and came in force from 1 January 1906 until 31 August 1953.
But the »Z II« mark (silver alloy of at least .835 but below .925) came in force then after, on 1 September 1953.
Also the twice time struck maker’s mark »HR.« seems to be of an elder Dutch phase of time — Utrecht area? Groningen area? …
Under these circumstances it seems to me, that this is a question for the more knowledgeable and specialised Dutch contributors.
But also they need to know, where and how often the shown marks are struck — so, please let’s know more.
It’s helpful too, to know the dimensions and weight per piece — economic circumstances were there also relevant; especially also in the Napoleonic period.
In advance I thank you for yours comprehension and future cooperation (do never forget, to add dimensions to yours future questions)!
Kind regards silverport
Re: Unknown combination of hallmarks
Hi,
This will add only a little to the perfect answer given by Silverport.
The ‘I’ mark. Duty mark for unguaranteed standard of fineness new gold and silver objects of national origin.
Your photo shows the ‘I’ mark 250 minimum fineness, used 1906-1953. It refers to the old ‘S’mark (1853-1859) description: this mark was used on all new Netherlands gold and silver objects below legal standard of fineness, those with non-precious metal additions, and on new heavily gold or silver plated objects, as long as the average precious metal content after melting with the base metal was at least 250/1000. It was also struck on rejected objects which have been submitted at lowest standard of fineness. In that case the maker had to choose between destruction or ‘unguaranteed’ marking. However this mark was sometimes mistakenly used on old domestic and foreign objects which, although not guaranteed, were legal for trade with the ‘I’ mark.
Unfortunately I have no more information about the twice struck HR. mark, or the to me unknown animal like marks.
Regards,
Oel
This will add only a little to the perfect answer given by Silverport.
The ‘I’ mark. Duty mark for unguaranteed standard of fineness new gold and silver objects of national origin.
Your photo shows the ‘I’ mark 250 minimum fineness, used 1906-1953. It refers to the old ‘S’mark (1853-1859) description: this mark was used on all new Netherlands gold and silver objects below legal standard of fineness, those with non-precious metal additions, and on new heavily gold or silver plated objects, as long as the average precious metal content after melting with the base metal was at least 250/1000. It was also struck on rejected objects which have been submitted at lowest standard of fineness. In that case the maker had to choose between destruction or ‘unguaranteed’ marking. However this mark was sometimes mistakenly used on old domestic and foreign objects which, although not guaranteed, were legal for trade with the ‘I’ mark.
Unfortunately I have no more information about the twice struck HR. mark, or the to me unknown animal like marks.
Regards,
Oel
Re: Unknown combination of hallmarks
Dear Silverport,
Here is my respond to your questions.
Are all here shown marks struck on each piece? Yes
Are all marks struck on the back side of the stems? Yes
Or maybe some marks on the back side — and the other on the front side? No, all on the back side nothing on the front
Or maybe some marks are struck on the left side of the stem — and the other on the right side? Most in the middle
Are some of these marks precise on the other side of a struck mark? In the middle, I added another picture of the location
Yours first photo of the marks seems to be a clipping; the in parts visible mark on the left side seems to be the »HR. «-mark (shown also in the last photo). But what kind of mark is the right one? A capital letter »D« or what? This mark does not appear on all the pieces but on most of them and on most of them you can see only half I have added a sketch to show how it looks.
The mark in the rectangle, shown in the second photo of the marks, has that mark an antipode? Apologies, not sure what you are asking here
The animal shown in the first photo of the marks seems to me not to be congruent to that of the last photo of marks: In the first one more natural, like a cow or a bull; in the last one some thing abstract, maybe a fox or a weasel? Yes I believe that it is a walking lion (the tail is long and thick in the end)or a bull I have added one more pictures for clarity
The script letter »I« marks signification is there described as to be struck on »Country internal products« only; and came in force from 1 January 1906 until 31 August 1953. Yes that is what I know of this mark
Dimensions:
Fork 8 cm
Spoon 8 cm
Weight per piece are:
Fork 58gr
Spoon 62gr
Kind regards and thanks to all responded!
Here is my respond to your questions.
Are all here shown marks struck on each piece? Yes
Are all marks struck on the back side of the stems? Yes
Or maybe some marks on the back side — and the other on the front side? No, all on the back side nothing on the front
Or maybe some marks are struck on the left side of the stem — and the other on the right side? Most in the middle
Are some of these marks precise on the other side of a struck mark? In the middle, I added another picture of the location
Yours first photo of the marks seems to be a clipping; the in parts visible mark on the left side seems to be the »HR. «-mark (shown also in the last photo). But what kind of mark is the right one? A capital letter »D« or what? This mark does not appear on all the pieces but on most of them and on most of them you can see only half I have added a sketch to show how it looks.
The mark in the rectangle, shown in the second photo of the marks, has that mark an antipode? Apologies, not sure what you are asking here
The animal shown in the first photo of the marks seems to me not to be congruent to that of the last photo of marks: In the first one more natural, like a cow or a bull; in the last one some thing abstract, maybe a fox or a weasel? Yes I believe that it is a walking lion (the tail is long and thick in the end)or a bull I have added one more pictures for clarity
The script letter »I« marks signification is there described as to be struck on »Country internal products« only; and came in force from 1 January 1906 until 31 August 1953. Yes that is what I know of this mark
Dimensions:
Fork 8 cm
Spoon 8 cm
Weight per piece are:
Fork 58gr
Spoon 62gr
Kind regards and thanks to all responded!