What servers are these?

[Qrt.S]

These servers are probably made in Sweden in late 19 century and plated (unfortunately). To me the marks show Stockholm's St Erik and NS could mean Nysilver (German Silver). However., I'm not sure at all.

I thought I knew what they were meant for but then I suddenly got another opinion of what you do with them. Now I'm like the donkey between haystacks...

May question is: For what and how do you serve with them and maybe you also know made by who and where too?
Thank you in advance.

[2209patrick]

Hi Qrt.S.

Maybe this thread will help.
http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 36&t=12733" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Pat.

[Postnikov]

Hi -
here are 2 pics from an auction catalogue in Germany - ice cream knife + ice cream server.





Regards
Postnikov

[silverport]

Ice cream server of Ice sickle and Ice serving spade

Hello all

The items are Ice CREAM server from around 1900 to the First World War — not be used for to scrap ice from blocks.



This is an excerpt from a German catalogue from 1914 (Wellner Catalogue XXXV, plate 95).

Kind regards silverport

[Qrt.S]

Thank you all for you interesting replies. As I mentioned in the beginning I considered them to be aspic servers. I still do. However, using them for serving ice cream is a fully acceptable explanation. But as was told that they were used for scraping ice from an ice block, I had to ask here hence I found it to be a very odd statement. What would be the reason for scraping ice, i.e frozen water, from an ice block on a dinner table?????

One more thing. Please notice that on silverport's picture the Eisvorlegeschaufel has a "brim" on the right side being then right handed while mine "schaufel" has the respective "brim" on the left side being left handed- On Postnikov's picture the server has no "brim" at all. Strange I would say, wouldn't I ?

Have a nice evening

Qrt.S

PS. How about the country of origin and the maker, Sweden?

[silverport]

There are existing »Opportunism« and »Purism«

Hello »Qrt.S«

There are existing »Opportunism« and »Purism«.

Don’t forget these are servers; in their past often be used from servants only.

Already in my former answer I was attempted to write also some remarks on »Opportunism« and »Purism« of items use. Sorry, so I don’t enter this discussion.

When I was a New-be, I’ve buy an item with a silver handle, and a prolongation in steel with a hook - I’ve requested the seller to get knowledge on that’s use; but he hasn’t known its original use. Another client informed that’s for kitchen use; to take out intestines of chicken … Well in a kitchen full of Sterling items, like e.g. the »Handschuhknöpfer«, that it was.

Some times later I’ve buy two »cracker« - the seller confirmed, that they are »oyster cracker«. Oyster eating with crushed parts of their shell? Then was coming X-mass — I’ve had the idea, they are useful walnut cracker, which prevent the surrounding to be spoilt excessive. But the »Purism« says: »Lemon squeezer« - look to: http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 36&t=19857" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

»Right hand use« contra »Left hand use« - don’t forget that some items were made by 1,000-series; and these had to be sell then after. There was in the past, and still is now too, that nearly almost items aren’t made especially for left-handers.

I’ve learned that in some North European area »AB« is similar to the Dutch »NV«, German »AG« …

In yours case I don’t know the maker. But I think that in North Europe are existing some register of that as well.

As a Designer I personally guess, that the items have, especially the fastening parts between haft and front part, an appearance of to be from Belgian or French origin — e.g. »Altenloh, Brinck & Co.« from Brussels. Being maybe then after exported to e.g. Sweden?

Don’t forget that at least from the time of »Erik the Red« the place of buy must not being always also identical to the place of items origin. The Archaeologists could tell you much more on this phenomenon.

Sorry there fore, that my contributions on this maybe don’t satisfying at all.

Kind regards silverport

[Qrt.S]

Evening Silverport,

By left or right handed I didn't actually mean a person who is left or right handed but how you operate with the servers i. e. which one in which hand was the point. Take a new look and think how you would use mine servers in comparison to your showed servers.

Yes AB in Sweden and Finland (also OY) is Aktiebolag/Osakeyhtiö. The same in Germany Aktiengesellschaft (AG) but in Norway and Denmark A/S aktieselskab. You see this abreviaton either in front of or after the name of the company. However, I don't believe the A B stands for that in this case more likely it is an expression for the silver's thickness used when plated. This is only guessing. Anyway the third mark from the left looks amazingly alike Stockholm's St Erik for the period. Therefore the Sweden guess. But your guess is as good as any other.

To my understanding the companies who manufactured German silver are rather badly registered all over, at least their marks are. No rules, no standards what so ever.

Have a nice evening

Qrt.S

[silverport]

Hello »Qrt.S«

In yours case of servers it seems to me, that they are each used by simultaneous handling; from a side board, and there they are maybe used only by a servant?

In a book for Service and Servants, from 1895, I’ve just studied, there isn’t mentioned how to handle these items. There is only mentioned how, and accompanied with which tools (ice spoon) this kind of prepared dessert has to be served [from the side board].

I’m born late; I’ve had a nanny, but we haven’t had a butler for to could know the practice; and more literature on that I haven’t yet.

The examples of »Tiffany« ( http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 36&t=12733" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ), yours, that of »Postnikov« (maybe made by Rudolph Schultz, Berlin; haft soldered from diagonal half’s) and my example (Wellner) are from a similar timespan of about 1900-1918.

In Germany in that time span, bigger cutlery producer like e.g. Bruckmann Heilbronn, and little ones, specialized on Servers and additional items, had these kind of item in their production and sales program. Little ones often have bought the front parts, often made from bronze by on that kind specialized producer.

In that time span already some cultural changes have happen — so maybe these “tools” were only buy together, but seldom used simultaneous?

I don’t “see” the »St. Erik« mark on yours item — well for you it’s imaginable. Maybe the marks are importer ones?

My guess to the area of origin is of French cutlery culture; so as I’ve already mentioned before.

Well there exist also from German producers of non precious flatware and hollowware some collections or official trade mark registrations. But I haven’t got from here until yet any connection to these official data bases.

There was in 2007 published a 3 volumes guide on German trade marks in hollowware, jewellery, and flatware — but I couldn’t recommend it to them without several knowledge; because I’ve found there to much mistakes. It’s also without any Index too.

Kind regards silverport

[Postnikov]

Hi -
another complete ice cream server with the typical ice cream spoons. When I said ice came in blocks and was served with this utensiles I took the German word ice instead of "Speiseeis" or the English word "ice cream". But when you see the photos you can easy understand what this things are for.
Of cours you can eat aspic, pudding or porridge with it - but in the civilisiced western world they are called: ice (cream) servers! If you hold the server in your left hand and the sicle (ice cream knife) in your right hand is up to you. I think 80 or 90 % of the people are righthanded - so the industry made mostly things for righthanded customers.



Regards
Postnikov

[silverport]

Hello »Postnikov«

During I wrote my contribution from Tuesday, Nov 16, 2010 3:07 am, there was, by me unknown, already yours contribution in the pipe.

Not you’ve stated that the sickles function is, to could scrape ice from an ice block! That was explained in the other topic ( http://www.925-1000.com/forum/viewtopic ... 36&t=12733" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) by »Doos« † in his contribution on the Tiffany sickle, from Saturday, June 14, 2008 11:12 am: » We just name it an ice sickle. To scrape ice from a block. «

Also with yours contribution it’s a bit more suggested to »Qrt.S«: Look Southwest — it’s an export maybe?

I guess, that are today »Ice sickles« never more being produced in series — so it is now only of academic interest, for what, when and how this “tool” was used »correctly«.

Already in these two topics are named, stated or suggested several very different uses; from crumb tray to …

Let these sickles being used for what whoever — I hope, that some nice of them getting their way to be collected too.

In two hundred years a teacher explain his pupils some thing … and search of sickles real history start again.

I’m really happy, that this discussion until yet hasn’t came up with: How must be dressed the servant correctly.

Kind regards silverport