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Hi asti -

here the right configuration:





Regards
Zolotnik

asti wrote:The first break in the fiddle pattern. Arrow spoons appear in the second quarter of the 19th century. Personally consider them a representation of Romanticism because of the upcoming cup form of a heart and the arrow significance. This model has evolved in parallel with the fiddle and classical twisted slim handle teaspoons occurring in mid-19th century. Until the end of century, these three patterns remain the main mass manufactured in Russia. If I'm wrong please correct me.
In image are two rare spoons, made in niello technique of and gilded. Manufactured in 1844 by Nicholai Mothokov.

Yes, Asti, it is Nikolay Motohov from Velikiy Ustyug.

Hi Zolotnik,
Now was your turn to make me fill envy. And we are doing a loth of strange thing when our faces turn lemon yellow... right? :-)

I looked after more caddy's





And some strainers




Sorry Dad, the one from the midle has no any markings.

Regards,
Asti

Zolotnik wrote:Hi asti -

the first mark I have never seen before :-), but he did not work in niello, the second is Ivanov Fedor V., a spoon maker and niello man.

Regards
Zolotnik

Hi, Zolotnik.

1. If you about the first master think Faberge you are absolutely right. This is Faberge from Moscow.
2. Ivanov Fedor had mark "ФИ". But I don't see the second letter "И" in mark. May be Asti sees?

Best Reg..

Hi Dad -

you take everything so terrible serious! Sometimes you must smile...

Now the nagging start again: Ivanov Fedor´s mark is: Ф.И, just turn the spoon around! Sometimes the maker´s marks are upside down :-), I have this mentioned several times before.

Enjoy the outstanding collection of asti´s spoons!

Regards
Zolotnik

Hi asti -

I am speachless......

Thank you very much for sharing!

Regards
Zolotnik

Dad wrote:1. If you about the first master think Faberge you are absolutely right. This is Faberge from Moscow.
2. Ivanov Fedor had mark "ФИ". But I don't see the second letter "И" in mark. May be Asti sees?

Hi Dad, this the best of my antic camera.

I’m not a Russian collector and even a expert, I buy just beautiful things. In some days I keep 2-300 spoons in my hands and I don’t buy all of them . I studied, I try to feel them,... and from hire came my experience. The question was little tricky because the first one is 100% Faberge, and a second have this strange looking mark from stroking. It’s like an inversed K. Ф What I’m sure it’s too uglier to be Faberge, and too beautiful to be Karl Fendt. Zolotnik gave the answer what I expected.

Regards,
Asti

I call this post the fiddle mix...

During the late 19th century and the beginning of the 20 fiddle model is a standard form with small variations in size and shape. Over the years I have found only two exceptions, one of them in the picture, with Austro-Hungarian violin pattern influence. Engraving usually missing, but the legendary quality of the Russian silver remains.



Dad, are all authentic, and I preferred to put instead hallmarks a higher-resolution image which users of this forum can download from here:


Ringo, if you take a look at the components (http://www.925-1000.com/a_spoonanatomy.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) of the spoons in my posts you will notice that all meet the same criteria based on their period, and the forms are slightly changing at 20-30 years . Every picture tells more than 1000 words , and hope to be usefully.

Zolotnik, I really enjoyed posting with you, and if you want to thank to somebody, this is my car ho is in service and gave me time to stay in the house to make these photos :-)

I wait for other users to post their pictures, maybe some spoons with enamel, which are missing from my collection. And I hope everybody will excuse my tricky English... 

Regards,
Asti

Hi asti -

here is the rest:

Saltspoon





Sifter





Sifter???










teasieve




That is all I can contribute - now we can start with the twisted handle spoons - I think it is too much work to photoshoot all the tiny marks and we should not educate the fakers!

Regards
Zolotnik

Hello asti,
probably we misunderstood. Thanks for the link about the anatomy of a spoon and the nice photos, but I only wanted to know, when did the fiddle pattern came to russia from the west at first and when this pattern get common there.

Kind regards,
Ringo

R ingo wrote:Hello Zolotnik and asti,

I am very interested in the evolution of spoon pattern (probably evolution is not the right word, because it suggests a continuity).
I am very interested to know, when did the fiddle pattern came to russia from the west at first and when this pattern get common and how looks the spoons from the 18th century.

Kind regards,
Ringo

Hi Ringo
Yes, probably we misunderstood.
I don't know when the fiddle pattern came in Russia, but I shared what I have.

Regards,
Asti

Hi,

This are my last fotos.

Some fiddle spoons with art nouveau and regency influenced decorations,


Twisted handle salt spoons and lemon forks,


Tea spoons,


Some unusual patterns and a communist one...


Best regards,
Asti

Hello, here I am dear Zolotnik, but traveling, on the move in Munich, Madrid....
Very interesting thread this one
Anyway, this caught my eye. (Zolotnik 9.5. kl 2.31 pm)

Kasane 1899-1905



It is not Kasan but St Petersburg. This version of the first left looking kokoshnik assaying mark was introduced in the middle of 1898 and used to the end of 1899 in St Petersburg by assayer Jakov Ljapunov and in Moscow by Ivan Lebedkin (Lebedkin is not absolutely sure) nowhere else. This mark with small figures (84) was withdrawn by the end of 1898 because it was not made according to the regulations. As from 1.1.1899 a new kokoshnik mark with big figures was implemented- You will find this kokoshnik in two versions differing a bit from each other. Now I have to continue my journey....I'm back later...

To Qrt.S -

after cleaning I could read the assayer better:





Assayed after 1899 (в 1899!) in Moscow, made by MK (1865-1883). How can someone make a spoon after he stopped working or is dead? Blah, blah, blah....

Regards
Zolotnik

About the posts on this topic.

Everyone should understand that I have nothing personal with anybody in the first place, but I would like to express my personal opinion.

I tried to give some good examples and even improvised a small photo studio for quality images. I expressed a personal view and not a bookworm opinion, because my experience came mostly from daily life.

I would like to suggest for future users posts, to be accompanied by better examples and not like "look I found a fly in your soup" attitudes. When you eat a soup made by a restaurant is easy to look for flies in the soup of someone who has prepared itself.
Yes, if you find a large moth can come up with counterexamples, but it is essential to try to prepare your own soup before.

That said, I think more constructive to post examples of Russian spoons beauty and about common and rare patterns.
And sorry again for my little “fly in your soup” theory.

Sincerely,
Asti

Hi asti, Hi all -

After I showed all my "normal" spoons among the grandious examples presented by asti - here are the what I call "spoons with twisted handles" - do not know the right nomenclature....

To show what a well off family used for tea or coffe - here some pics of a nearly complete service - silver gilded with niello.

Maker: Probably Maria Ivanovna Sokolova 1886-1908, a wellknown silversmith from Moscow.

Vendor/Contributor/Dealer: Orest Fedorovich Kurlyukov, silver factory founded in Moscow 1884. The firm was famous for its products in the "Russian" and "Neo-Russian" styles. In 1895 he won the Finance Ministry´s Medal of Honour and made objects for Tiffany/New York. Well known for his painted Cloisonné enamel in especially bright blue on a cream ground. I will later show an enamel spoon from him.In 1916 the firm ceased to exist.











Maybe you see the difference in quality compared to the many fakes available on every corner....

Regards
Zolotnik

Zolotnik wrote:To Qrt.S -

Assayed after 1899 (в 1899!) in Moscow, made by MK (1865-1883). How can someone make a spoon after he stopped working or is dead? Blah, blah, blah....

Regards
Zolotnik

Bad, that you don't trust. It's really Moscow. Such assay mark (small 84) marked the short period 1898-1899. The master not Karpinsky Michail Mihailovich, but Karpinsky Michail Yegorovich.

Hi Dad -

big misunderstanding! I cleaned the mark and noticed that it was from Moscow and not from Kasan as stated. I only knew MK Karpinski M.E.(1865-1883) and could see that he was long dead.
I did not know that there is a Karpinski M.Y. with the same (?) mark.

Thank you very much!

Regards
Zolotnik

Hi Zolotnik,

Now after you've finally cleared a small bug problem on your spoon with Dad, I’m looking forward to your posts with the beginning of 20th century which are missing from my collection...

One suggestion I have: for special gorgeous items such as those from your last post would be interesting if you make some close ups on details that look relevant to you. The fakers can copy hallmarks but on the fine details always have big problems. This remain the best criterion for the readers of this topic to distinguish a genuine from a fake.

One detail...


Regards,
Asti

Hi all -

here are the rest of my spoons. I am no explicit spoon collector - just what heaped up over the years, in no way representative for this period nor complete. Several important spoon makers are missing. Some marks are shown, some not because they are too tiny, illegible, bad struck or unimportant. Further I try to avoid sensless discussions...
Here you go:























































Some famous names, some not so famous names, some unknown names - but all are just beautiful!

Regards
Zolotnik