18th century 1728 Paris Wine Taster (taste vin) - unknown ma

[fermiersgeneraux]

Hello folks,
I have a French made 18th century wine taster (serpent handle), with fermiers generaux hallmarks for Paris, 1728-1729. However, I cannot make out the silversmith - his hallmark is there but is partially erased..am hoping one of you is able to identify him..

charge hallmark (crowned A) and discharge hallmark (crowned merlette) for Paris, 1726-1732
Community/Jurande hallmark (crowned N) for Paris, 1728-1729
control hallmark (rabbit) for old pieces
silversmith hallmark - crowned fleur de lys, the two dots (grains de remedes), and P?...a symbol and another initial, none of which are very legible

I've listed the pictures below:

[JayT]

Sorry I don't recognize the maker. Turning to Nocq, he lists over 400 makers from Paris whose mark begins with a P. These makers are not arranged by date of activity or area of specialty, so going through the entire list would be quite a task! Without at least one other element of information (another letter of the name or the symbol), I can only wish you good luck in your research.

[fermiersgeneraux]

Sorry I don't recognize the maker. Turning to Nocq, he lists over 400 makers from Paris whose mark begins with a P. These makers are not arranged by date of activity or area of specialty, so going through the entire list would be quite a task! Without at least one other element of information (another letter of the name or the symbol), I can only wish you good luck in your research.

Thank you for your insight JayT -much appreciated.
I dont have the Nocq reference book, but i have consulted the three-volume ref. books from F. de Nobele, and have not have any luck..I guess my next move will have to be to procure the Nocq book. Best regards, Phillip

[JayT]

Regret that I couldn't help.

If you don't already own Nocq or know someone who does, your best bet is a reference library. This 5-volume work has long been out of print; it is available from time to time on the secondary market for the low four figures - ouch.

[fermiersgeneraux]

Regret that I couldn't help.

If you don't already own Nocq or know someone who does, your best bet is a reference library. This 5-volume work has long been out of print; it is available from time to time on the secondary market for the low four figures - ouch.

Hi JayT, I don't suppose you know if anyone (or company) has previously put the 5-volume Nocq books on CD/DVD and selling those?
Best regards,

Phillip

[JayT]

Hello Phillip -
Nocq was reprinted in 1968, but that edition is also scarce and expensive. To my knowledge there is no DVD. I don’t know the copyright status of this reference. A reference library still sounds like your best bet for the moment.

[fermiersgeneraux]

Hello Phillip -
Nocq was reprinted in 1968, but that edition is also scarce and expensive. To my knowledge there is no DVD. I don’t know the copyright status of this reference. A reference library still sounds like your best bet for the moment.

ok, thank you, JayT - much appreciated!

[zilverik]

Hi,

Hard to say, but maybe Pierre Loyseau.
Henri Nocq, page 158: Fleur de lys couronne, P L, un oiseau et deux grains.
Jacques Helft, Les Grands Orfevres de Louis XIII a Charles X, page 325, number 301 (page 320).
Pierre Loyseau became a Paris master in 1712. So that could fit.

Regards,

Zilverik

[fermiersgeneraux]

Thank you Zilverik for the info. and taking the time to look into this - you're right, it could very well be Pierre Loyseau. I had initially dismissed him because I was so focused on the center symbol being a heart, but after looking at it again, it could just as well have been the bird symbol from Pierre Loyseau's hallmark..certainly seems like a plausible fit.
Thank you for weighing in, and happy holidays!