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This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:16 pm
by Tedim2

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:00 am
by dognose
Hi,

Please embed your images.

Trev.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 4:02 am
by AG2012
Hi,
N. Bloom & Son was founded in 1912, when O.Курлюков alredy retired from business (1910) and died in 1916.The Great war started in the meantime.
Meaning, I doubt spoons were officially imported and retailed by N. Bloom & Son:the box does not belong to the set.
As suggested, embed your images and better close ups of the marks are needed: not all marks are overstruck.
Regards

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:44 am
by Tedim2
" I joined the company in 1953 straight from school. My grandfather had by then opened a business in New York. Whilst we still did some manufacturing, mostly we bought and restored in our own workshop large quantities of Sheffield and Victorian plate, which we shipped over to New York for sale. My uncle ran the business in London. We also dealt in fine quality Georgian silver; one of the first things I remember being a magnificent silver-gilt double tea and coffee set by the famous silversmith Paul Storr." - Ian Harris off of N-Bloom and Son website

The box is definitely a custom fit, made for the set mid 20th my guess. In line with the 50-60s remarketing of silver by the firm.

My question is why the overstrike on all the spoons not the sugar tongs but I cant take a picture on the tongs its in the middle on the hinge spot. I have never seen a Kurlykov overstike before.

Test
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Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 9:59 am
by Tedim2
tongs

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Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:01 am
by Tedim2
spoons
3 random

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Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:06 am
by Tedim2
Last picture for condition and esthetic

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Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:01 pm
by Tedim2
Kurlykov hallmark for record

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Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:44 pm
by AG2012
There is silver with various maker`s initials beside Kurlykov mark (retailed by him or subcontractors).
Swan mark in your spoons is French import mark.
So,we have Russia, England (box) and France, as well as an overstruck mark. Silver moves in a mysterious way.
Regards

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:34 am
by Mart
A small addition. Orest Kurlyukov died in 1910. Then his heirs worked.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 10:42 am
by Tedim2
Any guess on the original smith, his hmark is on the tongs pictured.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:23 pm
by Mart
The brands "СA" and "КУРЛЮКОВ" are found on spoons nearby very often.
The "СA" on the church products is probably Semyon Alekseev (Семен Алексеев).
Other "СA" may be Sergey Alexandrov (Сергей Александров), Sergey Alekseev (Сергей Алексеев) or someone else who was not published in the reference books of those years.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 12:26 pm
by AG2012
Hi,
The best candidate is C.A in Moscow Sergei Akhmakov, active 1895-1917.Jewler abd silvermith.Known objects in the museum: creamer,cup, spoon.
Regaards

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Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:28 pm
by Mart
Akhmakov was the owner of a watch and gold jewelry store. Perhaps there was also a repair shop at the store. Therefore, I did not even remember him.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:17 pm
by AG2012
Right, he was a jeweler but according to PL book silver items and holloware were made in his workshop: creamer, cup and spoon kept in State Historical Museum,Moscow (ГИМ).
Regards

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 3:08 pm
by Mart
Yes, there are products with the brand "СA" in the museum. In whose workshop they were made there, they know only according to information from the PL. In this case, it is very likely that the existing brands were simply attached to the name that came across.Unfortunately, this happens very often in the reference books that you use.
In addition to the already mentioned masters, Ashmarin and Agafonov worked.
I think that Akhmakov is at the very end of the list of candidates.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 4:55 pm
by AG2012
Sergei Agafonov mark looks different (cursive letters 2855 and no dot in 2856):
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(From Skurlov):
АГАФОНОВ Сергей Иванович, влад. сер. завед., основанного в 1870 г., известен до 1897 г. По сведениям 1894 г. имел 17 рабочих, выработано продукции на 4000 руб. Пуговицы, посуда. 1895–1896: завед. серебр. изд., М. Мартыновский, Серп. ч., 2 уч., с. д. 1900: завед золотых. изд., Серпуховская, д. Гурьянова. Постникова—Лосева: клейма №№ 2855, 2856, 2875.

In regard of Asmarin,initials do not match:
1.Василий АШМАРИН
2.АШМАРИН П. Г
3.АШМАРИНА Агаф. Андреевна

Regards

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:37 pm
by Mart
At the beginning of the 20th century, Semyon Vasilyevich Ashmarin was the owner of a silverware factory.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 11:52 pm
by Mart
I apologize-Stepan Vasilyevich Ashmarin.

Re: This one has me perplexed

Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 3:10 am
by AG2012
When did his son Stepan took over the workshop and did he change the mark ?

Ashmarin family business is quoted both by Ivanov and Skurlov under Vasily Matveyevich Ashmarin 1883- 1917. According to the address and reference book "All Moscow" ("Вся Москва") home ownership was registered with his wife Agafya Andreevna Ashmarina in 1902 and 1909. There is no reference when he died,though (after 1902 ?).

Ivanov:
277. Ашмарин Василий Матвеевич
Владелец фабрики серебряных изделий, 1883— 1917;
в 1900 году па выставке в Париже был награжден
бронзовой медалью, в 1901 году имел 25 рабочих;
Кологривский пер., собств. дом. Москва.
Marks:Инициалы па клейме: ВМА, АШ М А Р И Н Ъ , В.АШ М А РИ Н
Skurlov
АШМАРИН Василий Матвеевич, влад. фаб. сер. изд. Встреч. в 1883–1917 гг. В 1901 г. имел рабочих 25. Эксп. свои изделия на Парижских выставках в 1889, 1900 г., дважды награжден бронзовыми медалями. Дело продолжал сын — Степан Васильевич. 1895–1900: завед. серебр. изд., Кологривский пер., с. д. Постникова—Лосева: клейма № 2258, 2280, 2320, 2321, 2280.